futurebird ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Get ready for a host of awful commentary about the Flynn Effect (the general tendency, since 1930 to about 2000 for test scores and IQ test scores to increase) "reversing"

I'm certain no one will use this data to make nefarious or evil political points!

OK, but what is really going on? Since there has never been consensus about the origins of the Flynn Effect in the first place who knows!

(It's education. People are better at tests when they spend time getting educated and taking tests)

alienghic ,
@alienghic@octodon.social avatar

@futurebird

I found a reference to one explanation that will probably not be considered by the US media. (COVID infections can cause cognitive impairments)

"A total of 658 (9.3%) participants were diagnosed with COVID-19, almost 4.0% of them achieved outstanding academic results, while uninfected students did so in 7.3%. SARS-CoV-2 infection was associated with a significant decrease in having outstanding academic results (OR = 0.57; 95% CI: 0.38–0.86)."

"Association between COVID-19 and outstanding academic performance at a Spanish university"

https://archpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13690-023-01225-w

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@alienghic

Worth thinking about, however, this trend predates COVID.

crashglasshouses ,
@crashglasshouses@kolektiva.social avatar

@futurebird

IQ isn't about education, it's a white person test designed by eugenicists.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@crashglasshouses

I think I'd say "education and IQ aren't about intelligence"

swelljoe ,
@swelljoe@mas.to avatar

@futurebird in my head canon, lead becoming less common in everything, especially gasoline but also paints and consumer goods, also contributed. And, maybe we're now seeing the result of new pollutants in everything...no generations prior to the 80s or maybe 90s had microplastics and nanoplastics embedded in their bodies from birth. But, education also seems a very likely contributor.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Also, we should always consider if people being good at tests is the goal, or a possible symptom of more grounded goals.

I'm certain this change will be discussed in a rational way and we won't need to listen to people blaming "social media" for the whole thing.

zens ,
@zens@merveilles.town avatar

@futurebird the test focus in education is incredibly misguided and shortsighted; let’s take another step even further back; what is education for? job training? preparion for military discipline? more engaged and curious minds participating fully in civic life? it seems poorly suited to all these goals. Are the jobs of the future primarily paper and handwriting based?

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@zens

The original purpose of a liberal arts education was to teach the children of the ruling and merchant classes enough about history, science, math and culture to make them effective decision makers and leaders.

but what happens when everyone has an education like that (good) chaos!

A key function of education should inform young people how things are run at present, why, and how to change it if they want.

Is that "job training?" probably not what bosses have in mind.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@zens

The interesting thing is that if you are sincere about wanting such an education to be effective you can't leave things out or teach nonsense.

light ,

@futurebird @zens Sure, but the definitions of "things that should not be left out" and "nonsense" should be left up to the parents, not the government.

There should be a decentralized system with multiple competing schools in my opinion.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@light @zens

Do you think it's OK for parents to prevent their kids from learning about evolution?

Or learning about how to recognize if they are being abused?

I agree that parents are central to decisions about education... but I also think there are some forms of enforced ignorance that amount to abuse, and indeed they can enable abuse.

What about parents who don't think that girls should learn to read?

There have to be limits, yes?

RogerBW ,
@RogerBW@emacs.ch avatar

@futurebird Not joining that general debate but I think one of the considerations is that it's harder to suborn a government (e.g. to capture it into a a particular restrictive mindset), but it can still happen. All solutions need to consider good government evil parents and evil government good parents, though I think the latter is on balance less likely if there is any health in the government at all.

CatDad ,
@CatDad@mas.to avatar

@futurebird @light @zens Sometimes parents are some of the worst judges on what is best for their children. Children are people, not property, and parents should not be petty dictators over a child's growth. Seems like only recently in human development we've shifted to this nuclear family dictatorial approach and that needs to be questioned.

light ,

@futurebird @zens When it comes to actual abuse sure (depending on details). But there should be no mandated official "truth" even if you think it has scientific backing.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@light @zens

Maybe it's naive, but I think there are some things in science math... and even in historythat are a part of a broad consensus of what is and isn't real.

IDK... the world is a globe? Life evolved over some billion years? Killing people is bad? Slavery is bad...

It's not just a matter of what ideas are popular, but what ideas are popular with those who study and question them and that have stood some short test of time.

Teaching a child that germs don't exist is wrong.

carrideen ,
@carrideen@c18.masto.host avatar

@light @futurebird @zens "Parents' rights" don't exist, though. Children are people and have human rights, and public schools are a promise that every person deserves access to a meaningful education. Parents who deny their children knowledge are not fighting against the government; they're fighting against their children's rights. As it is, parents have private schools and homeschooling to turn to if they want to deny their children the education every other child has access to.

light ,

@carrideen @futurebird @zens Also, what about kids' rights to be homeschooled if they want to be? There is no "right" to do something if it is forced on someone.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@light @carrideen @zens

The US offers many opportunities for alternate education, possibly a few too many since there have been some ugly cases involving cults and abusive homes where avoiding a "worldly" education was a smoke screen for keep young people from knowing enough to realize they were being harmed.

barrygoldman1 ,
@barrygoldman1@sauropods.win avatar

@futurebird @zens good luck finding teachers willing to let and guide teenagers in ovrethrowing their rotting business as usual... let alone administrators!

sigh...

libroraptor ,
@libroraptor@mastodon.nz avatar

@futurebird @zens That's the best kind of job training that we've got, for people whose primary job it is to be a free citizen.

But I understand that what you're really talking about is that, for the vast majority, our bosses see our primary job as obedience and servitude for another individual's gain.

futurebird OP ,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Personally, I worry that the attempt to snatch away mass access to the power of a liberal arts education is working. That would make people worse at math and reading tests... and more importantly it will make people easier to manipulate...

But I can't prove that. It's just what I worry about.

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