phf OP ,
@phf@tabletop.social avatar

@chgowiz @kensanata I am sorry for being unclear. What I mean is that there are two things, in my mind anyway: One that does away with an already existing magical effect and one that prevents a spell from taking effect in the first place. The former I'd call a dispel, the latter I'd call a counter-spell.

In Chainmail and OD&D the distinction does not seem to exist, it's just our "modern reading" of those words that seems to imply one. I think Gary used "counter-spell" and "dispel" (and indeed "dispell") interchangeably. In Chainmail we find the "elementals must be dispelled" thing but there's only a "counter" mechanic. In OD&D we find the word "counter" a lot when "Dispel Magic" is talked about, but also in other cases, for example when "Slow counters Haste" or (even weirder) in the "Rock to Mud" spell where we find (to my knowledge) the first "reversible" spell? Maybe there's even some of this left in AD&D but I have not had a chance to look yet.

Nothing is "wrong" with wanting both in your game I don't think, and yes, there doesn't seem to be a nice "duel" thing at most tables so it's definitely cool to bring it. Like I said, I am mostly just stewing on this, wondering how I'd want to frame it.

"Thinking out aloud" as it were?

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