Nominal is more than inflation so real is above 0.
Real just has to be above 0 for inflation adjusted wages to be going up.
I still call bullshit though without knowing where the increases are. All the increases could be in the top 10% with everyone else going down and only the average is above 0.
Edit: I was wrong, the growth is actually weighted toward the lower end.
And how much of that is minimum wage going up? Don't get me wrong I love that. But going from 15k to 20k a year is going from drowning to clinging to a piece driftwood. The full time annual take home needs to be around 40k-50k per person with all the decades of negative real wages.
Looking beyond the average, production/non-supervisory workers—roughly the bottom 82% of the wage distribution—started seeing positive real wage growth two months earlier in March 2023, now 14 months in a row (not shown).
But keep replying please because I could put your exact comments in the COVID threads I was arguing in back then. It's uncanny. It's the exact same shit conservatives say when data doesn't support their preconceived idea.
Afraidofzombies put it well
“I get what you are implying but it really isn't relevant. Economics is just someone's opinion at best, more often than not it is propaganda, lying with math. Not at all the same as the vaccine nutters or global warming denying.”
That’s crazy how the post is about income vs inflation and their comment is about “economics”.
The post is about numbers. Ones which, if they told a story of doom and gloom, you’d presumably completely agree with.
This is great stuff. Thanks for taking my original comment further than I thought it would go. Truly brings me back to arguing with conservatives about COVID numbers. I’m just disappointed there’s no equivalent here for walking into a hospital demanding to see patients.
Is there a place to put comments like this? Some kind of "how to lose an argument" community?
If you disagree with the numbers you can argue them coherently. Like, that's how facts work. If there are issues with the data you make a compelling argument by pointing them out. Data doesn't give a fuck about your feelings, refusing to contribute meaningfully to the argument doesn't make you superior, it makes you look like an idiot, and doubling down on your refusal to engage meaningfully with the content makes you look even dumber.
You have time to hand wave away shit you don't agree with but don't have time to make.a cogent argument? You're too good for.it.all when you're called out for it? Is it maybe because.you don't understand economics?
Because I sure as fuck don't. But I do understand that its a real academic.discipline that involves lots of real math that I also.don't understand. And while I take most.of what I read on the internet with a grain of salt people in this thread that do appear to understand some of those things are indicating this Dara is likely correct. And those arguing that it isnt don't appear to be able to articulate why.
So my own conclusion is that there's probably.something to this. But it doesnt really matter if there is or isnt, really, because I'll never do anything with the info. Still, I choose to see this as a glimmer of.hope in troubling times.
Although if you are able to articulate your "all economics.is bullshit" theory, I'm pretty sure the many many doctorate holders in economics would love to have you destroy their field of study. You could usher in a revolution in economics. You could create whole new academic.disciplines, and do to.economics.what the scientific method did to natural.philosophy. In that case, don't you have an intellectual duty to lay out.your argument?
You can leave out one number or change one formula to get the numbers desired to fit the narrative they’re pushing. I’m not wasting my time dissecting an article to ‘win’ a meaningless internet argument
This is cool and all but the post is about wage growth in the past 12 months.
It's like if the post said, "did you know 1+1=2?" and you came along saying, "Yeah well 2+2=4". It's not a counter argument to the statement in the post title. It's another statistic altogether.
Now go ahead and try to hand wave this way.
No, handwaving would be saying something like, "well I haven't experienced this and also none of my friends have so it's not happening".
So, interesting stat which is relevant in a larger context but doesn't mean the post is factually incorrect.
The first mate on a ship decided to celebrate an occasion with a “little” stowed away rum. Unfortunately he got drunk and was still drunk the next morning. The captain saw him drunk and when the first mate was sober, showed him the following entry in the ship’s log: “The first mate was drunk today.” “Captain please don’t let that stay in the log”, the mate said. “This could add months or years to my becoming a captain myself.” “Is it true?” asked the captain, already knowing the answer. “Yes, its true” the mate said. “Then if it is true it has to go in the log. That’s the rule. If its true it goes into the log, end of discussion” said the captain sternly. Weeks later, it was the first mate’s turn to make the log entries. The first mate wrote: “The ship seems in good shape. The captain was sober today"
Once you understand this story all of economics makes sense.
Growing up my family could pile into a van for a 2 week road trip or Disney vacation every summer. My grandparents were still working at that time, grandfather was a small business owner mechanic. Grandmother was a part time bookkeeper for a non profit.
To have that financial independence today, I would need triple my income, or my wife and I would need to double our income.
I figure a decade+ of real wage gains across the economy would approximate that. Maybe not for me personally, but for the average.
I get what you are implying but it really isn't relevant. Economics is just someone's opinion at best, more often than not it is propaganda, lying with math. Not at all the same as the vaccine nutters or global warming denying.
The hole was really deep. And that inflation from Covid didn't go away. Beating inflation now does not negate losing to inflation then. You have to beat inflation that much harder to both gain now and make up for previous losses.
Is that why I was fired after training my replacement that was paid less than me? Is that why nobody is paying the amount I was formerly paid for my skill set now?
Cuz, from my point of view, nobody wants to train and nobody wants to pay employees what they’re worth.
I’d love nothing more than to find a job that A) contributes to my personal development and B) isn’t constantly micromanaging me. Just lemme work, and lemme learn new stuff. That’s all I want, and that’s apparently too much.
The last time I looked the real impressive growth was at the lowest ends of the labor market. Effectively it's state minimum wage increases hitting. Everyone above minimum wage is far less affected by this. But you do have to go looking for that kind of information. Leadership wants to look at the line go up and cheer, not understanding that the person making the median isn't really affected by this. the other fun thing is since it's mostly minimum wage movement, they aren't suddenly being able to afford stuff. They're still getting crushed by inflation like most people.
Which is great... lower end is who needs income improvement he most.
However, this is not a W overall and neither side is able to really provide any plans how to fix structural issues.
More Perfect Union is another example who is shilling biden recently, i mean i get it... but labor orgs push it too hard, they will lose credibility imho.
Democratic party is not pro labour, neither is Biden. If people can make their choices, i don't get my these orgs are taking this risk.
For people making the statistical average hourly wage growth. If your wage gains are less than the numerical average of everyone else, its your employers fault, not the Bureau of Labor Statistics
It's so nice to be leaving another historic, traumatic crisis and entering another depressing normal, where we get to live out our tedious, soul crushing lives while we await the next crisis.
Not this citizen here, though. This "tal" is a real patriot, sharing half-assed hopium around like smearing shit on his teeth and grinning at us all. 🤦🏼
The real median household income in the United States for 2022 was $74,580, which represents a 2.3 percent decline from the 2021 estimate of $76,3301. This figure is based on money income, which is pretax and does not account for the value of in-kind transfers. It’s important to note that this calculation excludes billionaires and focuses on the broader population.
It seems that they are already excluded for some reason.
If you use median, removing or not of 1000 people from a pool of millions indeed has zero impact. My guess is that they worded it like that because they assume people don't knownwhat a median is, so they describe the practical effect
Median earnings grew faster than inflation every quarter between Q2 2022 and Q4 2023, a year and a half straight. Ticked down in Q1 2024 but basically back to pre pandemic levels.
