I'm starting to think that a lot of #atheist#leftist misunderstand #religion. I went to church today. It wasn't amazing but I did enjoy it. I think that religion, especially in the west, largely isnt about faith anymore. I enjoyed going to church because I saw people I knew, I saw people I didn't. There was music.
You can have community and assembly without fantasy. Of course a large portion of the appeal of religion is the community. That’s a compelling reason to set up atheist meetups and communities to give atheists that some of community as well!
It's not the sense of community or the music that's problematic with organized religion.
It's the fact that when you convince people that a virgin gave birth to the son of the creator of the universe, you can convince them to do horrible things too.
@sardaukar@finnbar_m Of course they try to indoctrinate them as children. Once the idea of a pervasive god is established, they can be easily programmed.
I guess this is why dictators use religion as a control mechanism..Putin is a big christian these days and so are all our leaders in the west...
I had the same upbringing in the Catholic church. Went to a couple services last year at a progressive christian church that’s queer-welcoming & non-denominational. I’m not all of a sudden a christian again, but it was actually really healing. Rather than focusing on how you’re going to (fucking) hell, it focused on the “love thy neighbour” aspects. I dunno, take what I’m saying with a grain of salt but it was nice to see religion being used as a positive force for good.
There doesn't need to be religion to gather. You could have a weekly block party, or a humanist/quaker/UU group to gather with. I am fully on board with putting the party back in the communist party.
A lot gets lost in translation and debates. I don't mind going to church when I do. I don't mind the people usually. It's the politicalization and money I don't like.
Cut out all the bullshit and it's basically about being respectful and living for building community. With every culture/subculture there's going to be those people that abuse it for themselves.
I see ceremony, ritual, processions,
Genuflecting, moaning, intoning,
Venerating cookies and wine,
And I think...
it's not what I had in mind.
- Jesus (*The Man From Earth*)
Religions can be fun, interesting, and educating. Why limit yourself to only one?
Many atheists have a strong understanding of many religions. IMO eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism provide a much healthier outlook of life. Their stories can be interesting as fuck, and their events are simply beautiful.
The main problem is with Christianity and the Catholic church, looking things through the spectrum of good or evil, is manipulative at best, if not downright evil (pun intended)...
Also, and I cannot stress this enough, aren't these the same guys (specifically men) that banned abortion? The people hurting millions of women in America as we speak right now. Not to touch on how they are planning to ban gay marriage...
If you had fun at church, go to a Satanic Temple party, I guarantee it's going to be much more fun!!
Last but not least, you minimize other people's experiences, it's not healthy... Try asking more open ended questions without being critical of other people or making assumptions. Be open minded like an atheist, not judgy and condescending like a priest.
@finnbar_m@leftism@atheism
While the social and communal aspects of religious gatherings can be enjoyable, they don't negate the harmful effects of religious beliefs and institutions. The positive experiences of community and music can exist outside of religion without the need for supernatural beliefs, and the enjoyment of social gatherings doesn't address the validity of religious claims or the potential harm caused by religious teachings.
Last time I attended a church service, it was Catholic and just happened to be Easter Sunday. Small town with a facility for retired nuns. I was visiting family with my mom (a Catholic). I was not raised with religion, as my parents were at the time very disillusioned with the church.
But I decided that since I was there, I would try to absorb as much of the scene as possible. It was a very modern service, the manner of the priest, the topics discussed which were more social than theological.
One thing that struck me was how low energy and unenthusiastic everyone seemed. Like, it's Easter, this is supposed to be the happiest day of the year for Christians. Nobody seemed particularly happy. They had all been there and done that many times before. It was like going through the motions as an obligation, not an act of joy.
The church itself was magnificent in its own way, large and opulent, with large stained glass windows, statues. Beautiful, really. I quite enjoyed the setting, and nothing the priest said was offensive to me. I don't believe that anyone can rise from the dead, nor be the son of a god, but the messages about not giving into messages of hate, that was alright.
Even though I wasn't a member of the community, indeed I would be considered unworthy and ostracized, being in the presence of people all devoted to one idea did impart a sense of community. I wonder how many others there were unbelievers or doubters, simply hedging their bets in case it's all true.
@finnbar_m@leftism@atheism I think atheists just want to know if the claims a religion makes are true, because if they aren’t then we should probably build community elsewhere.
It may just be a social activity for you, but a lot of people literally believe in a god and that affects the way they treat people. People are passing harmful laws in the U.S. and other nations right now because of their faith. It’s not just a reason to gather, it’s a worldview.
I get that some people are just using religion to justify bad stuff, but a lot are doing bad stuff because their holy book tells them to. Again, someone’s religion is often a worldview that informs everything they do.
You don’t just get to say “well it’s not because of the religion” when a lot of holy books explicitly support the immoral acts they legislate.
Have you ever been to a church? Or a mosque? There is a human standing in the pulpit who chooses what to preach. That human is making a choice, not the book.
You can paint it as "religion bad" all you want. But religion is *made up" literally and figuratively, by humans making choices, no one blindly follows a book. Everyone follows what makes sense to them, thst is a choice ON religion, not by religion.
All religions also talk about kindness, love and compassion, your argument makes no sense. People either pick and choose or they don't. They can't be both blind followers who have their worldview given by religion, but also ONLU follow the parts about hate.
By making religion and religius people a monolithic scapegoat for what's wrong with humanity, you are doing exactly the thing you are criticizing: Being a blind follower.
@Randomgal And just so you understand why you’re about to get blocked, you misrepresented what I said.
The point wasn’t “religion bad.” I just pointed out that some people DO make bad choices because they think their holy book is handed down from god.
If you really think the religion itself has nothing to do with that, you’re just wrong. And I don’t think you’re interested in understanding my position, so I won’t bother. ✌🏽