Joncash2

@Joncash2@lemmy.ml

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Joncash2 ,

If that happens good? Why do we think having countries and borders that creates strife a good thing? If we eliminate all borders and are just humanity I see that as an absolute win.

Joncash2 ,

I don't know why this isn't talked about more, but the reason for the disconnect is that USA has become a petrostate. As a petrostate, the rich get wildly rich and makes the economy look good, while the citizens are fed a bunch of religion to keep them from protesting.

Joncash2 ,

The truth is it's all propaganda from both sides and no one actually knows what's going on. And because I'm saying this anywhere I'm probably going to be downvoted to oblivion as either side will downvote me. However, what we do know is:

  • China has admitted there are training camps in the Xinjiang Area.
  • The training camps are mandatory and people have been forced to go there.
  • The graduates have been spread all over China gaining employment in pretty much every factory in China (This imho is because it makes things impossible to sanction)
  • The people are compensated for their time in the training camps (This is what makes them forced labor camps in theory)
  • It is a cultural thing where guests in Xinjiang are invited to sleep in the same bed. This has lead to many stories of Chinese people forcing themselves into the bedrooms of Xinjiang people.

What we are sure isn't quite right:

  • They are not genociding the people in the camps. This is why the conversation has turned to "cultural genocide" whatever that means. I believe this is propaganda to reinforce that they could be genocide when there is no evidence.
  • There is a lot of fake evidence for the genocide. For example the prison camp image or the truck that is censored but has red liquid leaking out of it were all doctored. Just this alone has to make you question the truth of those claiming genocide.
  • The "leaked list" of prisoners is fake. It contains HK movie stars and actors.

What we could probably conclude:

  • I'd argue that there is forced labor occurring as they are literally being forced into training camps and getting paid for it.
  • There is no forced labor in the factories USA is claiming there is. After graduating, the students are welcome to move and work where they want, so this can't be forced labor.

Final questions:

  • What happens to those who won't participate in the forced training camps? We don't know, and that's ultimately where the disconnect and miscommunication is coming from. The west is claiming they're being killed. China isn't saying anything but then are at a minimum keeping them locked up indefinitely. So, in the end, it's a bad situation for sure but it's likely not as bad as the western propaganda makes it look.
Joncash2 ,

It's a hot take because while you are right, it's something that all countries do. It's just not necessarily the government that does it. Just look at the culture wars in the US. China's biggest difference is it's controlled by the government. But it also has nothing to do with Xinjiang. They do it to everyone, Hans Chinese inclusive. Technically that's what the great leap forward was. First forcing the Hans Chinese people to assimilate to the government's idea of a unified country. It worked, so they're pushing it everywhere.

Also, it's important to note that the only violent enforcement of this was on the Hans Chinese. This was Tian an men. After that they've gotten really good at subversion. There was only one suspicious killing in the HK riots for example. For as large a protest as it was, it was largely nonviolent. Compare that with BLM in the States.

Joncash2 ,

This is just it getting doled out. You agree to 60 Billion and then you slowly release it as they are doing now. It would be impossible to actually just ship 60 billion worth of weapons, there are logistical issues as well as supply issues. The 60 billion is also partially going to making the missiles and weapons that Ukraine will need in the future.

On the other hand, it would be super cool if humanity figured out teleportation and we could just beam 60 billion dollars worth of goods, but until then, this is what you should expect.

Joncash2 ,

It's not a bubble, it's much much worse. You only hear of it in whispers among the financial world. It's stagflation. Japan seen this story before, they call it their lost decade that has been going on for nearly half a century. It's when you deficit spend like crazy to prop up the economy and that leads to high inflation and stubbornly high costs (IE: Housing). It's coupled with basically no wage growth and high underemployment. Does any of this sound familiar? It buried Japan, it might bury USA.

Joncash2 ,

Bizarrely there are, that's what black water essentially is, a paramilitary group that can hold off a military. If you think it's insane that we allow private companies own their own military, well it is. They of course not allowed to operate on US soil, but they exist.

Even Russia has laws against this, it's kind of nut USA allows it. Of course, Russian law is one thing and wagers existence shows how well that law is followed. But even the Russian founders understood having a private military is insane.

*Edit arguably, Putin flaunting the law and creating Wagner is a reason he became a dictator and what the country was trying to prevent when they made the laws.

Joncash2 ,

The thing is, China is almost certainly doing this. It's just not nefarious. China does this to it's citizens all the time. It's trying to understand what they want and what they need to focus on. It's what China means when they say they are a democracy. They're listening to the population and trying to make changes based on the responses they get.

Of course we can reword this to make it nefarious. This is what they're talking about when they talk about the "social credit" score. Since posts will be reviewed by the CPC, it's easy to then extrapolate and say they're doing it to crackdown on dissidents. Or in this case, manipulate the voting.

But of course they're manipulating the voting. They don't believe what our politicians say anymore and are trying to directly converse with the people. They're hoping their tactics in China will work in convincing the population to stop being so negative about China and asking questions to know how to represent China better to the western population.

It reads like an AI fantasy because they're leaving out the important parts of why China is doing this to begin with.

If you're against China doing this, ask yourself this. How can you improve things if you don't ask questions to begin with?

And this is why USA is falling apart, no one is willing to question the narrative.

Joncash2 ,

Which is exactly what you'd expect if they ran AI to ask questions? Topics and controversies are going to pop up a lot. A bot would obviously re-ask about it as they see many people talking about it. It would be more surprising if it didn't ask about issues that were stirring controversies.

Joncash2 ,

Copying software copies, therefore evil. Did I dumb it down for you?

Joncash2 ,

D'uh, this is literally what bitcoin was created for. An untraceable currency that can be used without any government control. It would be stranger if Russia didn't do this. It's proving the value of bitcoin.

Joncash2 ,

This makes me question what it takes to be a super power. Between this and the leading cause of US bankruptcies being medical related, it's almost as if super powers can only be super powers if they don't give any of their citizens healthcare. It's as if working their citizens to death is the only way for them to maintain their hedgemony.

Joncash2 ,

No one using this would be trying to "stick it to the man" by doing this. They're trying to get some scrapes from the man by doing this.

Joncash2 ,

I'm saying this is the farthest thing from a solution. It's the opposite of a solution. People doing these investments are increasing the problem.

Joncash2 ,

So I want to be upfront and say I don't really agree with their argument, but I do understand it. What Russia and China are saying is by tying the ceasefire to the release of hostages is unfair to the Palestinian side. This is because they lose all leverage and then would be easy targets for Israel who doesn't seem to mind bombing Palestinian civilians.

My issue is that technically the only reason their bombing is because of the hostages and perhaps if they release the hostages peace talks can begin. The opposite of that argument is it will allow Israel to be even more aggressive after the temporary cease fire is ended.

I don't know, but that's the argument.

Joncash2 ,

Actually, no. While China absolutely spies on other nations as well as infiltrates social media, they don't try to cause rebellions. I'm saying this BECAUSE of what western media has uncovered about China's influence campaigns in the US. We've uncovered Russia doing exactly this in our elections, but every single one of the articles about China's influence campaigns have all pointed to China simply advertising visiting China and promoting Chinese products.

There's a good reason for this and it underlines the differences between US and China's views of the world. China, unlike pretty much every other country doesn't care what your country does or who rules it. They have no moral lines to cross or care about conflicts in other nations. AS LONG AS CHINA CAN CONSUME ALL YOUR RESOURCES, China's totally happy for you to be whatever the fuck you want to be. Thus, China doesn't try to manipulate votes in other nations. Arguably this is also why USA is terrified of China. In a Chinese ruled world, there could be chaos essentially everywhere except China. No world police, no effective sanctions, just business with China.

So, it's not that China wouldn't or couldn't do something like this, it's just not in their current interests. That could change, that probably will change, but at the moment that's how China is acting. Also, I'm not trying to say USA or China is good or bad, both have their good and bad sides and effects. What I am saying is China's version of world governance is so vastly different from the US that this is where the conflict really lies.

Joncash2 ,

Well the question isn't about taking China seriously, but admitting that China was right in the first place. US's argument is that China can spread disinformation on Tik Tok, which is exactly what China was saying about Facebook etc... So, China, which doesn't have freedom of speech banned those sites for promoting foreign interests. US is now trying to do exactly the same to Tik Tok.

IF you accept USA's argument here, then you implicitly accept China's argument since they're the same argument. So, again, it doesn't matter what China says, what matters is what you just said:

It’s kind of hard to take their criticism seriously when western sites and apps like the BBC or Instagram are blocked in China.

So there by admitting, China was right, countries SHOULD block foreign influence.

*Edit: Man the timing of this article

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/politics/exclusive-trump-launched-cia-covert-influence-operation-against-china/ar-BB1jSnFz

Like I said, China seems to be right here.

Joncash2 ,

China has said they will bail out the regular people. What they're doing is they're buying the homes at a discounted price from the people and turning them into subsidized housing. To quote the article:

“We will scale up the building and supply of government-subsidized housing and improve the basic systems for commodity housing to meet people’s essential need for a home to live in and their different demands for better housing,”

So there's no bailout for the property developers but they are controlling the loss for regular folks.

I'm sorry people downvoted you without explaining that. I know it's hard to read the entire article sometimes.

Joncash2 ,

Well it's also important to note that western media is intentionally not reporting on this properly and putting what I said as remarks at the end of articles. There's two reasons for this.

  1. This has never happened before. Countries usually just bail out their property developers and hope they'll build cheaper housing. IE USA Circa 2008. So we really don't know what the outcome of this is. Wall St of course hates this and is terrified of this. I mean if it works and other countries follow suit in the future, what would that mean for all the Wall St. billionaires.

  2. Obviously the usual China bad narrative. The west really really doesn't want any Chinese actions to be viewed in a positive light.

So here's a Korean article that explains it better and isn't as influenced by western media.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/xi-jinping-s-socialist-solution-china-s-response-to-the-real-estate-crisis/ar-BB1iDuXM

The key take away point is, stop believing US media, it's absolutely shit propaganda. I'm not saying China is good, hell I agree with the Koreans that this might not work, but for the love of god don't believe USA.

Joncash2 ,

Yeah this is a bad meme. The whole point of machine learning is to do minutely different things over millions of generations to see differences and their effects. It's the exact opposite of doing the same thing and expecting different results. Machine learning is the summation of millions of differences.

Joncash2 ,

That doesn't really work. For example, driving is the same action. I do this action over and over again. However, I drive to vastly different destinations. I'm not in fact doing the same thing over and over even though the same action is being done.

Similarly an algorithm will give vastly different results based on the inputs I give it. Saying it's the same formula with different inputs would be very incorrect.

Joncash2 ,

I'm so tired of people trying to ridiculously imply that everything coming out of Huawei is fake. The argument doesn't even make sense as this isn't from Huawei, this is an engineering sample given to an end user.

I realize you're not exactly saying that, but it really gets on my nerves these days. For example, when the Kirin 9000s came out, people were saying Huawei was lying about it being a 7nm chip and that it was made in Taiwan from old stock or whatever. The problem with those claims are the only reason we knew it was a 7nm chip was because a CANADIAN company opened it up and determined it was indeed a 7nm chip. Huawei didn't say anything and people were calling them liars for what Canadians were saying. It's why there was the 4.9999G jokes since Huawei never claimed the 9000s was 5G.

Similarly in this case, it's an engineering sample. Huawei again didn't say anything. If you're going to call someone a liar the person you're accusing should have at least said something.

White Rural Trump Supporters Are a Threat to Democracy ( www.thedailybeast.com )

In the popular imagination of many Americans, particularly those on the left side of the political spectrum, the typical MAGA supporter is a rural resident who hates Black and Brown people, loathes liberals, loves gods and guns, believes in myriad conspiracy theories, has little faith in democracy, and is willing to use violence...

Joncash2 ,

The funny thing is the electoral college was designed to counter exactly this event. In the case an absolute tyrant is going to get voted in, the electoral college is supposed to be the last chance to challenge it. But with the way the GOP is going, ain't no one gonna challenge anything.

As they say, the devil will come bearing a cross wrapped in the American flag.

Joncash2 , (edited )

Well, both sides are bad. Your argument is Trump is far worse. Which as an American you should feel that way. Because Trump would be fucking horrible for America. But if you were Palestinian, you'd definitely prefer Trump as he might pull support from Israel.

Thus, the problem today isn't that there is a good guy, it's choosing which genocide you support. Do you support the genocide of Palestinians or Ukrainians. Either way, you get to vote for genocide. Clearly the US is a shining example of democracy.

*Edit: Those who are wondering why Trump would support Palestine, it's simple, he's a Russian puppet. It serves him to switch sides to get more money from Russia. Obviously, Trump wouldn't do something that doesn't benefit him, but when you're half a billion dollars in the hole, uncle Putin is going to come to save the day. If Trump wins of course.

Joncash2 ,

What's crazy to me is Putin had such an opportune chance to control the narrative and try to pull the far right to his side. He could have done this by speaking to anti-LGBTQ stuff or talk about traditional families. But instead he spent his time talking about a perverse Russian history that some how blames Poland for Hitler's aggression.

Putin had a chance to control the narrative, but instead ranted on like a crazy old man. So win for the west, but what a strange story.

Joncash2 ,

Well Orban seems 100% on Putin's side regardless. I guess I don't know enough about Germany to know if that's something their far right wants, but wouldn't surprise me. And I suppose that all makes more sense since the far right in USA is clearly on his side already.

Joncash2 ,

How is that different than now? DnD fell apart because Hasbro is a world stage corporation, they're just trading it to another world stage corporation which will kill it further until they pass it on too.

Whatever you remember liking is long long dead.

Joncash2 ,

I'm sure your being sarcastic, but no. This is China salami slicing. They extend a little bit, tensions flair up, they stop further extending for a while. The world sees it's not so bad, then they start again and repeat.

‘It’s difficult to survive’: China’s LGBTQ+ advocates​ face jail and forced confession ( www.theguardian.com )

In recent years, China’s LGBTQ+ community has been swept up in the Chinese Communist party’s broader crackdown on civil society and freedom of expression. In May 2023, a well known LGBTQ+ advocacy group in Beijing announced it was closing due to “unavoidable” circumstances. Last February, two university students filed a...

Joncash2 ,

Not that I am OK with how China is dealing with these things, but this is not exactly an LGBTQ+ issue. As per the article, the reasons for the arrests are kidnapping, not any law against being gay. In fact, China has essentially civil unions for gay people who want to be in a recognized relationship.

Ironically, in this case, it's not a government problem but a societal one. The older generation is very conservative. They set the tone for a lot of censorship. So while your free to be gay or whatever, you can't talk about it or make media about it. This is to not offend the older generation.

The older generation can inflict immense damage on their children as the article points out. If you disobey your elders like your parents, the police will tend to favor the elders as we see in this article.

As a cultural issue, this has kind of been the case since Confucius times. China is kind of famous for over controlling and overbearing parents. And in this case, the government backs them even if the official policy is to let them be. For example in 2017 China ruled that gay conversion camps illegal. Yet the problem still persists in 2019.

Of course as per usual, when the government doesn't know what to do, it tries to censor everything and hopes it goes away on its own.

Like I said, not OK with it, but we should all be aware what it is and be aware of biased reporting from the news.

Joncash2 ,

Yes I did. Here's a few quotes from that article.

While China has a law against domestic violence, it fails to adequately protect victims, especially LGBTQ+ people, say advocates, with crimes often dismissed as family affairs

And

Li Tingting (left) and Teresa at their wedding reception in Beijing, China, July 2015. Li, 25, a prominent rights activist announced their marriage in an effort to push for LGBTQ rights in China

As well as it gives several examples of abusive families who manipulate the law to attack those who help their children. Like the trans woman who tried to protect the run away trans woman.

I said it's not good. But it's not the government pushing this. It straight says so in the article in the quotes I'm posting.

Joncash2 ,

I've already talked about it. When China doesn't know what to do they censor everyone. But there are still gay bars and gay pride has gone into dance clubs.

Heres a guide on where to go.

https://www.travelgay.com/beijing-gay-bars-and-clubs

Heck, they censored one of their most popular videos games genshin impact because it was too sexy. They censor straight sex too. In fact you could argue if they didn't censor gay pride it would be preferential treatment.

Hell your quote literally says it.

Chinese Communist party’s broader crackdown on civil society and freedom of expression.

Joncash2 ,

Everyone is getting prosecuted equally so no it's not an LGBTQ issue anymore than breathing is an LGBTQ issue.

Joncash2 , (edited )

Again it's not about LGBTQ. It's anything to do with dressing different or talking about sex. That's why boy love films are so popular in China. They dress them in fancy traditional garb and have sexual tension but no kissing or sex. Hell some of them got so popular they got onto Netflix.

Here's the main Chinese propaganda mouth piece promoting it.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1168331.shtml

Joncash2 ,

Yes, but they are applying it equally. They are banning all mentions of sex, not just queer sex. They are censoring anything that shows too much skin, not just queer dressing. This is why I pointed out them censoring a video game made for kids. Basically they said a leotard was too revealing.

The problem isn't the enforcement. The problem is the reporting. As society there reports against the LGBTQ more than other ones. Again, that's not the government doing anything unequal or targeting. Which is why I said it's not exactly an LGBTQ issue. It becomes one because of the older conservatives.

Joncash2 , (edited )

Yup, most of the world has gendered clothing. But this is China, where for decades they rejected that. Their school uniforms still rejects gendered clothing.

https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/chinese-school-uniforms-korean-students-jealous/

It's only relatively recently come back from Western fashion.

They're literally trying to fight against what your talking about to such a degree that even your normal concept of gendered clothing is different. And I know that's hard to wrap your head around, but that's exactly why I'm saying, it's not exactly what you think.

*Edit: Let's look at this from another angle. China has been trying to enforce gender neutral ideas for some time, like gender neutral clothing. All this push for gender equality has lead China to become the home to the most female billionaires in the world.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/wu-yajun-china-has-two-thirds-of-worlds-self-made-women-billionaires-meet-the-richest-8296901.html

The Chinese government is 25% female.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/239113/sshare-of-women-in-chinese-national-parliament/

So it's in China's position that while not great now, by constantly pushing gender neutral laws and trying to prevent sex being displayed in public, they'll create equality.

As you point out though, that often leads to oppression and other terrible side effects.

I'm saying, I do not believe i personally understand the situation enough to make a judgement call. I just want people to be aware of what's actually happening and not that it's some kind of governmental anti-LGBTQ+ push. It's China trying to be China for better or worse.

Joncash2 ,

Here's citibank telling their investors about it.

https://www.citigroup.com/global/insights/citigps/china-s-inward-turn-

It's been going on for a while, the article is from 2020.

My personal opinion is this move is highly risky, but could produce massive rewards. We're in the third year of this and China still suffers from deflation from lack of internal demand matching former exports.

But China seems dead set on this regardless of risks. This is why there are so many China collapsing articles. The actions to do this aren't great for the economy on a global term, but in the long run may make China more durable. Who knows, this is so different than what everyone is doing it's kind of uncharted.

Joncash2 ,

Well, look at the results. Only 40% voted for the DPP. 60% voted against the DPP. It's just the 2 more pro-China parties got their vote split. Not so in their congress which is now mostly KMT.

So if we take the popular vote, Taiwan voted for status quo, not Independence. China's noticed that and that's why they're not doing another blockade.

But that goes against your narrative so I'll bet you downvote me and ignore the actual votes that do not support your argument.

Joncash2 ,

Psst, here's a secret, it wasn't important. The western media made it seem way more important than it was. If it was so important and war could have actually happened, then it would have already.

Joncash2 ,

I said they wanted status quo. Which we do. You people keep telling us it's about independence. It's not.

Joncash2 ,

40% is not a majority.

Joncash2 ,

No and that's what annoys me about how people talk about Taiwan with no understanding of what's actually going on. Status quo is Taiwan and China are one, but Taiwan runs itself independently, just as Taiwan wants.

Joncash2 ,

Shows how little you understand. KMT wants the status quo, TPP wants to engage China.

Joncash2 ,

See, you don't know and try to force your narrative on others. And if we actual Taiwanese people tell you no, you mansplain it to us. This is why I hate people like you.

Joncash2 ,

I have stated nothing but facts. TPP wants to engage China.

https://news.yahoo.com/taiwans-opposition-says-towards-better-052635196.html

KMT wants the status quo.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/from-dove-to-hawk-kmts-transformation-and-the-quest-for-new-guardrails-in-cross-strait-relations/

Instead of refuting facts, the above poster resorted to insults. So yes, I insulted him back.

I expect you too will not refute facts but instead keep insulting me.

Joncash2 ,

KMT isn't pro-China, nor is TPP. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said KMT is pro-status quo and TPP is pro-engagement. Only the DPP wants to completely veer away from China. There also is no evidence that TPP wants to fight for freedom. I have no idea where you are getting that from. They want diplomacy, not war. I don't know why you westerners think of everything in terms of violence. It explains a lot why there's so much violence in the US.

Joncash2 ,

Oops, I miswrote, I meant pro-engagement with China.

As to you quote, here's a more comprehensive article on Ko.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/taiwans-presidential-candidate-ko-wen-je-seeks-a-middle-ground-with-china-attracting-young-voters/ar-AA1mss2T

and here's what he thinks about the possibility of invasion.

“China doesn’t really wish to attack Taiwan

Your quote is just saying the same thing that Xi says all the time. That a military needs to be ready for war.

Taken out of context constantly in western news. All XI and Ko is saying that we don't think there will be war, but if it comes to it we need to be prepared.

Joncash2 ,

That is correct. Taiwanese people are generally ok with the situation and have what we want so don't stir the pot. Also, I realize in that post I wrote pro-China. That's incorrect, both the TPP and KMT are pro-negotiation with China which I am too and I dislike the DPP who wants to disengage. However, technically all parties are against independence.

To add my own personal opinion, I want people to stop talking about war and conflict with China because I think it's hurting Taiwanese businesses. I believe if we just let things lay and don't stoke the flames, Taiwan would prosper more.

*Edit: To expand upon my anger at people constantly saying China is going to war with Taiwan, who would invest in a nation that is going to war? It creates a situation where people think twice about investments. Better to keep our status quo and to stop talking about war entirely. Taiwan is free, this election clearly shows what we do and want is up to us. Stoking the flames of war only causes people to want to visit less and invest less. Taiwan is a beautiful place that is wonderful to visit. But if you think missiles are going to be lodged at Taiwan, you're less likely to be a tourist. This is why I'm on the side of 60% of Taiwanese and with the TPP and KMT, TPP more than KMT but as a third party they get less votes. OK I'm rambling but I think you get it.

Joncash2 ,

Well, Chinese cities will seem western and modern to you as well. I have family in China also. The media twists everything that's happening and well, I'm sick of it. I guess in some ways this is just me acting out.

My biggest issue is whenever USA has beef with China for God knows what, Taiwan gets dragged into whatever is going on. Leave us alone, that's all I want. In this case it's semiconductors.

The first Taiwan strait crisis was because USA wanted to beat up on China for the Korean war. Second crisis was a continuation of the first one.

The third Taiwan strait crisis was similar to Nancy Pelosi's visit.

So from my personal point of view, it's constantly the US stirring up trouble. Not everyone in Taiwan shares my views on this stuff. I'm at this point only talking what I believe.

But we all tend to agree to just keep our freedoms and the status quo.

*Edit I should add I dislike both China and the US and think they're bullies. They're bullies who bully each other and uses Taiwan as a flashpoint.

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