Nobody ,

Just a few weeks ago, Taiwan held historic elections without any major cross-Strait incident, in part because all sides — Washington, Beijing, and Taipei — worked to reduce miscommunication and misperception about their respective intentions. That is an outcome few may have foreseen in August of 2022, when most expected the cross-Strait situation to grow more tense, not less. But it’s no guarantee of future trends, and the risk remains real.

This approach has been the hallmark of Biden's foreign policy. They're working behind the scenes subtly and competently, making progress in ways that doesn't really track with the 24-hour news cycle and clickbait journalism. It's good to see the efforts paying off, but they really, REALLY need to work on their messaging.

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah because you outsourced the crap out of them and then acted surprised when they leveraged that economic power.

On the other hand, China is also probably the one country where they successfully kept the CIA out. Can't coup your way put of this one.

Fontasia ,

"... holding in one’s head multiple truths at the same time and working iteratively to reconcile them."

That sounds really hard, have you tried cognitive dissonance?

PanArab ,

A nation of 330 million cannot control a nation that has 1 billion more people. Nations should also be free to choose their own destiny. A logical fallacy many in the West fall for is assuming the rest of the world wants to be like them and should be like them. If I have a 3000 or 4000 year-old civilization why should I take marching orders from a baby state that’s not even 300 years old like the US?

PowerCrazy ,

The British Empire and basically the world was controlled by a single city of ~1million. And besides the historical and current examples of smaller cities controlling much more land and people then they had themselves, the statement doesn't make sense. Why can't a nation of 330 million control a nation of 331million?

PanArab ,

Those days are long past and were a historical anomaly. We live in a world where Afghanistan defeated the US-led coalition forces.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Imagine if US spent all that effort changing itself and improving the lives of the people living in US. Maybe it could be half as good a country to live in as China today. 😂

brain_in_a_box ,

Unsurprisingly, all of the USA's ranting and raving about "See See Pee Subversion!" Was pure projection.

Trudge ,
@Trudge@lemmygrad.ml avatar

We also saw something that really stood out, which is that the PRC believed the United States was in terminal decline — that our industrial base had been hollowed out, that our commitment to our allies and partners had been undercut, that the United States was struggling to manage a once-in-a-century pandemic, and that many in Beijing were openly proclaiming that “the East was rising and the West was falling.”

Sullivan can't get away with this. He can't just say a banger line like this and continue on without addressing it.

nicetriangle ,
@nicetriangle@kbin.social avatar

I feel like this isn't surprising information. Quite a lot of the rhetoric and behavior coming out of China has signaled as much pretty openly for a while now.

brain_in_a_box ,

Well hopefully they're right

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Some more absolute bangers in an earlier talk from Sullivan where he admits that the whole free market bullshit they've been promoting can't actually compete with what China is doing. It's an absolutely incredible read, Sullivan claims that the American economy lacks public investment, as it did after World War II. And that China is actively using this tool.

last few decades revealed cracks in those foundations. A shifting global economy left many working Americans and their communities behind.

The People’s Republic of China continued to subsidize at a massive scale both traditional industrial sectors, like steel, as well as key industries of the future, like clean energy, digital infrastructure, and advanced biotechnologies. America didn’t just lose manufacturing—we eroded our competitiveness in critical technologies that would define the future.

He also opined that the market is far from being able to regulate everything, and "in the name of overly simplified market efficiency, entire supply chains of strategic goods, along with the industries and jobs that produced them, were moved abroad."

Another problem he identified is the growth of the financial sector to the detriment of the industrial and infrastructure sectors, which is why many industries "atrophied" and industrial capacities "seriously suffered."

Finally, he admitted that colonization and westernization of countries through globalization has failed:

Much of the international economic policy of the last few decades had relied upon the premise that economic integration would make nations more responsible and open, and that the global order would be more peaceful and cooperative—that bringing countries into the rules-based order would incentivize them to adhere to its rules.

Sullivan cited China as an example:

By the time President Biden came into office, we had to contend with the reality that a large non-market economy had been integrated into the international economic order in a way that posed considerable challenges.

The People’s Republic of China continued to subsidize at a massive scale both traditional industrial sectors, like steel, as well as key industries of the future, like clean energy, digital infrastructure, and advanced biotechnologies. America didn’t just lose manufacturing—we eroded our competitiveness in critical technologies that would define the future.

In his opinion, all this has led to dangerous consequences for the US led hegemony:

And ignoring economic dependencies that had built up over the decades of liberalization had become really perilous—from energy uncertainty in Europe to supply-chain vulnerabilities in medical equipment, semiconductors, and critical minerals. These were the kinds of dependencies that could be exploited for economic or geopolitical leverage.

Today, the United States produces only 4 percent of the lithium, 13 percent of the cobalt, 0 percent of the nickel, and 0 percent of the graphite required to meet current demand for electric vehicles. Meanwhile, more than 80 percent of critical minerals are processed by one country, China.

America now manufactures only around 10 percent of the world’s semiconductors, and production—in general and especially when it comes to the most advanced chips—is geographically concentrated elsewhere.

At the same time, according to him, the United States does not intend to isolate itself from China.

Our export controls will remain narrowly focused on technology that could tilt the military balance. We are simply ensuring that U.S. and allied technology is not used against us. We are not cutting off trade.

nekandro OP ,

"Electoral interference" is illegal, but "shaping and changing the PRC" is just business.

blargerer ,

You are giving a very sinister lean to shaping and changing. I think its clear that they wanted China to be another Japan, not any number of failed coups in the middle east or Central/South America.

brain_in_a_box ,

Japan? The country that the USA economically crippled the moment it started to threaten US dominance, sending it into a multi-decade depression (literally called the lost decades) and permanently transforming it into the poster-child of capitalist dystopia?

Yeah, nothing sinister at all about trying to do that to China...

wildncrazyguy ,

You act like the Japanese didn’t want to lift their people out of poverty. That the people within SONY didn’t aspire to be one of the largest corporations in the world.

The Japanese owned a significant amount of real estate within the US at their zenith (kind of like China today). They faltered because it started to cost more to import certain materials then it did to improve those raw materials and export them. Econ 101, cheaper markets existed for that type of manufacturing. It took some time to transition to a service economy. They still excelled at heavy industry and still do. They’re still one of the predominant ship builders and car builders in the world.

Japan was also one of the first countries to be hit hard by an aging population, partly because of xenophobia, but I think mainly other cultural factors. It’s challenging to try to keep your economy going when the workforce is shrinking and more of a country’s wealth is going towards caring for the elderly. I think anyone with aging parents can attest to that.

It’s not always America ruined their lives, plenty more nuance than American geopolitics. Lest we not forget that America helped to build them up in the first place. And not having to fund a military can do wonders for a country’s growth (you know, so long as they aren’t invaded).

Your hate for America and capitalism has distorted your world view. I’d prefer to live in a world of opportunity rather than a world of schadenfreude.

brain_in_a_box ,

You act like the Japanese didn’t want to lift their people out of poverty.

I don't and I have no idea why you think I do.

That the people within SONY didn’t aspire to be one of the largest corporations in the world.

The vast majority of people working for SONY are far more concerned with their own declining wages and working conditions than they are with the prestige of a corporation.

The Japanese owned a significant amount of real estate within the US at their zenith (kind of like China today).

Hmm yes, I wonder what happened

They faltered because it started to cost more to import certain materials then it did to improve those raw materials and export them.

Yeah, of course; just a regular, everyday, normal completely future destroying collapse of the national economy. Plaza Accords? What are they?

They still excelled at heavy industry and still do. They’re still one of the predominant ship builders and car builders in the world.

Yeah, and the people of Sierra Leone are excellent diamond miners. What does that have to do with the USA wrecking their economy?

Japan was also one of the first countries to be hit hard by an aging population, partly because of xenophobia, but I think mainly other cultural factors.

"Black people aren't economically discriminated against in the USA, it's just their culture!"

I think anyone with aging parents can attest to that.

The Lost decades started 35 years ago; my boomer parents weren't even middle aged yet.

It’s not always America ruined their lives

Maybe not, but it is in this case.

Lest we not forget that America helped to build them up in the first place.

After leveling all their cities and incinerating half a million civilians.

Your hate for America and capitalism has distorted your world view.

Spare me your patronizing crap.

I’d prefer to live in a world of opportunity rather than a world of schadenfreude.

Well then you should be damn pleased that America didn't manage to do to China what it did to Japan.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

The only reason there wasn't a coup in Japan like a lot of other south/east asian countries is that after the aftermath of WW2 there was no need of one

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