Both the Nazis in Germany and the Nats in South Africa was inspired by the US's white supremacism-drenched society.
However, it is simply not fair to blame the US for all this. White supremacism seems to be the defining feature of (so-called) "Western" civilization - one could argue that the very concept of a "West" would collapse without it.
Oh there's not point on following this around. The entire thing was a complete shitshow coming from all sides of an echo-chamber of elites through the entire world. There's no point on trying to poin-point it at the "West" either, as it wasn't restricted into there.
It's much better to just accept that elitization like there existed at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century will almost certainly lead to some kind of atrocity and must be fought against.
So, that's how we are calling echo-chambers nowadays?
competing racialized “supremacies” being violently enforced
Hum... Do you consider the Japan part of the "West"? Because that's a very famous one.
About ahistoricity, well, if you really want to go following the idea around, go for it. IMO it's a nasty time-sink that won't add anything of value to one's life. But well, you are free do disagree.
Then this should be easy for you - prove the existence of this "yellow supremacy" that (somehow) grew up independently from the west's (yes - as in the West's) "race science."
IMO it’s a nasty time-sink that won’t add anything of value to one’s life.
Soooo, again... I thought you libs were above ahistoricity?
Then this should be easy for you - prove the existence of this “yellow supremacy” that (somehow) grew up independently from the west’s (yes - as in the West’s) “race science.”
we got:
The Japanese, whose racism dates back several hundred years before they had any meaningful contact with "the west" (for example the heavenly blessed Japanese being aided by the divine wind to stop the invading mongols TWICE).
The Chinese, Han suprematism played a key part in the overthrow of the Mongol Yuan dynasty and lead to the Ming dynasty.
the Ottoman Empire was literally controlled by an "elite race" of people who were decedents from the original Osman tribe
and that's just off the top of my head, all race science did was take the same societal structures that used to be "divinely ordained" and use pseudo-science to legitimize them since the power of individual religious group tended to decline
No, no, no, Clyde - the only thing you've managed to prove, genius, is that you don't have the foggiest clue what "racism" (ie, white supremacism) even is.
"Divinely justified" nationalism isn't race science, Clyde - so far, that's the only thing you've managed to trot out as "proof" that the west didn't invent this and is, to this day, still defined by it's tenets. You're going to have to do better. Much, much better.
you realize that racism isn't just white supremacy?
and no, divine right on a national basis IS the same thing as race science, race its self is a social construct that isn't actually representative of reality, and generally speaking was/is/will be used as a pseudonym replacement for nationality.
it seems to me that you have a half-baked understanding of racism, nationalism, and discrimination
you realize that racism isn’t just white supremacy?
Why is it the people who knows the least about this that are always the first to argue vehemently about it, eh?
I hate to be the one to break it to you, Clyde - the concept of "biological race" only exists within the framework invented by white supremacists and no-one else.
The Japanese and the Chinese never thought of themselves as a "Yellow" or "Asiatic" "race" - people in Africa never thought of themselves as "Black" or "Brown."
Those racial classifications were entirely invented - and subsequently enforced through violent repression and exploitation - by white supremacists.
So no... because you don't even have a basic understanding of the subject matter you have been unable to provide any evidence that "race science" is some "universal invention" of humanity - and guess what that means, Clyde? It means you don't get to hide from the legacy of white supremacism and it's fundamental association with "Western" civilization.
the concept of “biological race” only exists within the framework invented by white supremacists and no-one else.
Why is it the people who knows the least about this that are always the first to argue vehemently about it, eh?
the concept of race and racism in general predates the concept of white supremacy by a long, long time, Aristotle described the Asian race as having low spirit etc...
the idea of the "white race" didn't exist until very late 17th to 18th century America, coming about primarily as a way to distinguish oneself from outsiders, hence many groups you would consider "white" weren't even part of it, e.g. Italians and Irish, Germans until the 19th century (yes the confederates)
Fundamentally, Race is a pre-nation state notion that many of the modern nation states are built on, so if you see a 800BCE righting talk about a group of people, it's basically always race and racism, scientific racism is just a continuation and further attempt to justify this and not inherently special in terms of racism, because fundamentally it's just the application of the currently accepted idea of how you describe the world onto racism.
Aristotle described the Asian race as having low spirit etc
Did you even bother to find out how Aristotle's world bothered to define "race" before you decided to use him as a prop to hide behind, genius? Was it cultural? Biological? Did they have a "One-drop" rule?
No?
Stop pretending that any smidgen of bigotry you find in a history book (somehow) equates to the institutionalized racialized caste system you were born into.
coming about primarily as a way to distinguish oneself from outsiders
No, no, no, Clyde - say it the way it is. Whiteness, and it's placement at the top of the racialized caste system that we call white supremacism, was invented to justify and facilitate the massive and unprecedented exploitation and/or extermination of colonized people - and that is the order of things you and the rest of us was born into.
Fundamentally, Race is a pre-nation state notion
So which one will you be hiding behind this time, eh?
Did you even bother to find out how Aristotle’s world bothered to define “race” before you decided to use him as a prop to hide behind, genius? Was it cultural? Biological? Did they have a “One-drop” rule?
while "race" was a nebulous concept then as well, (i mean take white for example, useless in Europe) what he described was more akin to the "biological race" of today.
but you don't actually care about the function of systems of bigotry, do you? because your entire world view only works in the VERY specific, VERY American context, my grandfather was what people toss into the group people call gypsy (was Romani), he was no darker than any other Italian, by your understanding of racism he should have been fine, because he had the same "whiteness" as the other Italians, in reality, he survived because a priest helped smuggle him to Spain forging paperwork in order to cross France.
Fact is that racism has existed long before "whiteness" was even a concept, you have a 100% American lens and like every American believe you are the literal world, you can not fathom the very idea that anything happened before America existed, so you have this full on chauvinist understanding of racism, I will say this again because your education system has failed you, scientific racism is just the modern application of divine right racism, in fact the divine right racism was what justified colonialism long before anyone even bothered with scientific racism, scientific racism only appearing some 200 years after the start of colonialism mainly because the power of the church went on a stark decline.
"Race" stops being a nebulous concept once you write it into law, genius.
Who was it that first institutionalized the "immutability" of race into law, Clyde? Do you think that part of history is hidden from us, perhaps?
what he described was more akin to the “biological race” of today.
Where is their race-based laws, Clyde?
Fact is that racism has existed long before “whiteness” was even a concept
Here... this is so mundane you can even find it on bloody Wikipedia.
The concept of race as a categorization of anatomically modern humans (Homo sapiens) has an extensive history in Europe and the Americas. The contemporary word race itself is modern; historically it was used in the sense of "nation, ethnic group" during the 16th to 19th centuries. Race acquired its modern meaning in the field of physical anthropology through scientific racism starting in the 19th century.
Do you have any more flimsy ahistorical props to hide behind, or will that be it?
because your entire world view only works in the VERY specific, VERY American context,
You think European colonization only happened in the US? Really? Do tell, Clyde... where did you think the white supremacism that informed the people who wrote the US constitution came from? (Hint... it's the exact same place those Ashkenazi people who rules Israel got their white supremacism from, too.)
“Race” stops being a nebulous concept once you write it into law, genius.
have you ever seen race based legislation? it's as nebulous as it gets because it's a rubble truncheon that can be turned on any group, then again I wouldn't actually expect someone who thinks "white" is a racial group/ethnicity to quite get that concept.
Where is their race-based laws, Clyde?
ok, so YOU not knowing something doesn't make it not exist, for example, Spartan law branded everyone "Not Spartan" a slave, because they believed that every region had its own race, only for it to later merge together as the speed of travel and communication increases.
Here… this is so mundane you can even find it on bloody Wikipedia
damn, you mean to tell me that racism isn't some inherent product of some group that had the dominant position in the region you lived in for the last 200years? but rather a much older concept? well, color me surprised.
Do you have any more flimsy ahistorical props to hide behind, or will that be it?
oh, can't stand the idea that the person you're labelling as "Clyde" isn't a WASP!? ya, sorry, as "Spanish" as they come.
Now to be fair, (and i'm saying this because it will 100% piss you off, but it's still true) you're going around in your little America-centric world view like the piece of chauvinist shit you are, calling everyone who disagrees with your negative some pejorative you use for "white" people, a concept once again only found in America, including members of any other marginalized ethnic groups around the world, all because you, like every "Clyde" out there are too far up your own ass to care about any group outside your own, that, in this case, is American.
Congrats Clyde, the rest of the world applauds your ability to project America onto us, but we are not America, the great majority of us aren't even English, yet you Clyde, you can't help but paint over our identities, cultures, etc... and replace it with America, hence why my grandfather's childhood of having to camp and hide from the government, or how his father, my great-grandfather didn't make it, instead was strung up at a local train station, how he wasn't even adopted into his foster family until the 70s, not about the horrendous post-war conditions all across Europe, as there were more "eyes"(meaning literal eyes of the people, and those little oil bubbles that float onto of a broth) looking into the soup than out of it, but no, I guess my heritage is a "Flimsy ahistorical prop".
Congrats, Clyde, you're no better than the other American racists.
where did you think the white supremacism that informed the people who wrote the US constitution came from?
I generally don't study American history all that much, I mean, you guys literally can't shut up about yourselves, so I'm sure I'll hear another 15 explanations as to how they were/weren't racist, but over here? i think the closest to a "unified" population is England with the English/Scottish/welsh, yet even the Toskana doesn't have a single unified culture or ethnicity
it’s a rubble truncheon that can be turned on any group
Oh, anyone, right? Show me where it gets turned on white people then - after all, it shouldn't be too difficult for an "enlightened" liberal like you to prove the existence of "reverse racism", eh?
Spartan law branded everyone “Not Spartan” a slave
Again, Clyde... this is such mundane knowledge that you can even find it on wikipedia - the highlights are mine:
Dominant in ancient Greek and Roman conceptions of human diversity was the thesis that physical differences between different populations could be attributed to environmental factors. Though ancient peoples likely had no knowledge of evolutionary theory or genetic variability, their concepts of race could be described as malleable. Chief among environmental causes for physical difference in the ancient period were climate and geography. Though thinkers in ancient civilizations recognized differences in physical characteristics between different populations, the general consensus was that all non-Greeks were barbarians. This barbarian status, however, was not thought to be fixed; rather, one could shed the 'barbarian' status simply by adopting Greek culture.
Let me spell it out for you, genius - these ancient cultures you are trying to hide behind had absolutely no concept of immutable "biological race" that you are so desperately trying to ascribe to them.
ya, sorry, as “Spanish” as they come.
Strange... you sound pretty WASP to me. But then again... all liberals desperately clinging on to their precious "see no white supremacism, hear no white supremacism, speak no white supremacism" schtick sound the same to me.
"white” people, a concept once again only found in America
ROFLMAO!
Where did you learn your geography, Clyde? PragerU, maybe?
hence why my grandfather’s childhood of having to camp and hide from the government, or how his father, my great-grandfather didn’t make it,
Stop hiding your white supremacism behind your ancestors - they are not on here running interference for white supremacism. You are.
I generally don’t study American history all that much,
You sure as shit don't seem to know squat about your own, either. You say you are Spanish, eh? And yet, you don't even know that it was Spain that literally passed the very first laws in known history that can be recognized as racialized laws - or didn't they teach you about "Limpieza de sangre" in high school?
The medieval Arabs didn't treat "Jewishness" as being an immutable thing - that's a European invention. The medival Chinese didn't treat "Blackness" as an immutable thing - that's a European invention. The medieval Indians didn't treat "Asian-ness" as an immutable thing - that's a European thing.
White supremacism is a European invention - and Spain played no less a part in it's invention than Britain, France and Germany.
It doesn't matter how hard you try, Clyde - this is known history now. Your attempts to hide the origins of white supremacism away behind ancient peoples who had nothing to do with it's creation or enforcement is dead in the water and there's nothing you can do to bring it back to life.
literally, already gave you one, but you are too busy being an American chauvinist to care.
and honestly until you stop being said American chauvinist, go fuck off, Americans really do make the best anti-race arguments by existing, because you have adopted the same attitude of superiority that the American white supremacists have, literally 0 cares for understanding cultures outside your own, instead you feel the need to lump every ethnic group together because they happen to be in the same general area.
and to prove your own point, you even manage to butcher the next groups you listed, Jews treat Jewishness as being an immutable thing passed down by the mother, it's literally part of the religious foundation, the Chinese treat being Chinese as an immutable thing, the Hindi Indians very much have always considered being a Hindi Indian as in immutable thing, you, an American chauvinist are an arogent pile of shit who makes caricatures of the rest of the world to fit your little stories.
YOU are racist, not "reverse racist" (whatever the fuck that's supposed to be, since the opposite of racism is inclusion), but are just racist. you wonder how white supremacists think? well, it's with the same disregard of other cultures you have here, instead of accepting outside views, forcing everything to fit and conform to your personal ideals on how the world works.
No, genius... Zionists do that - and by conflating Zionism with Jewishness you prove just how thoroughly stuck you are viewing the world and all the people in it through a white supremacist lens. Jewish people can convert - and the only people who believe that a person who converts from Judaism to any other religion is still "Jewish" is a white supremacist.
the Chinese treat being Chinese as an immutable thing
Prove it - if you can.
the Hindi Indians very much have always considered being a Hindi Indian as in immutable thing
Prove it - if you can.
YOU are racist, not “reverse racist” (whatever the fuck that’s supposed to be
Projecting won't hide the fact that you are a white supremacist, Clyde - and getting all angry because somebody showed no respect to your attempts to hide it by appealing to ahistoricity won't change that.
In the 1920s, many Mexicans were fired from their jobs due to intense anti-immigrant racism and the great depression.
Private and city local agents would show up at some people's door with train tickets in hand, and say "pack your bags and get on this train."
Hence the air quotes around "deported".
At first, most American Mexicans left "voluntarily":
They wanted to escape racism and find work.
The Mexican government promised them free land, as well, further pushing many to leave.
Many of the American citizens that left were the children of non-citizens, whose parents made them leave.
It wasn't until later the federal government got involved, and comparatively fewer (90k, still a lot) were deported forcibly.
Interestingly, this is a common trend when we look at anti-immigrant action. The federal government is rarely the actor that does most of the damage. Most of the action comes from extremely racist MAGA-type populists going around burning property and attacking people en masse. See also the Chinese Exclusion Act.
The federal government is rarely the actor that does most of the damage. Most of the action comes from extremely racist MAGA-type populists going around burning property and attacking people en masse. See also the Chinese Exclusion Act.
This is the way "authorities" work. They sit quiet while the "unofficial volunteers" wreak havoc. If the authorities disagree with a groups actions they make take action against them. Otherwise inaction means they tacitly support it.