The main problem with that is sports would then be like 95% played by males. Almost no woman can match a man in sports where physical endurance, strength or speed is involved.
I'm glad people are studying this, and I do agree there is a lot of unwarranted fears mixed up in this topic. But full acceptance of this science will not answer the whole issue, as in this study
All transgender participants had undergone hormone therapy for over a year
Which is not the definition of transgender used by teams and organizations in most of these controversies, if athletes even want to disclose their health history.
This is incredible work. I have one question that confused me, the article says that trans and cisgender women have the same bone density, which is linked to muscle strength. Then it says that bone density "is not indicative of athletic prowess".
If bone density and muscle strength are positively correlated, then it should be an indication of athleticism, no? Do I have a misunderstanding of what they consider "athletic prowess"?
I believe the diference between the two claims may be due to controlling for height in one of the findings that they don't correlate to athleticism and not in the other
Reading some more scientific literature, I think they probably read that it was associated with muscle mass (due being associated with height which wasn't controled for). Controling for height makes the association go away
They are basing it off of different reports between those claims
Thank you. Certainly sounds like more research needs to take place, but this is awesome and will hopefully encourage more studies.
I also thought it was interesting that discrepancies between trans and cisgender women in strength could be attributed to trans women being forced to use men's training facilities, equipment and resources, which get more funding and are better equipped. It's amazing what you learn when you control certain variables.
I feel like not enough people know why we're even hearing about this issue. In 2019, a conservative think tank did focus groups and figured out that trans women and girls competing in sports against cis women and girls would be the most upsetting social issue for middle class suburban women and conservative democrats. It did better at swaying votes than any economic issue, and tested well in local elections, so they took it to the national scale. It was never about the athletes.
When Schilling considered the range of issues making centrist voters and suburban parents uncomfortable, the one that stood out to him was transgender rights: an issue that had largely been absorbed into the Democratic platform, but which he suspected many Americans were still processing themselves. But what was the right angle to take? Earlier that summer, American Principles Project had partnered with a behavioral science firm to assess whether focusing on transgender issues could turn educated suburbanites into Republican voters.
APP and its data partner, Evolving Strategies, analyzed how thousands of registered Kentucky voters reacted to different messages about what they described as Beshear’s “extreme” support for transgender rights. Should men be allowed to participate in sports events for women and girls? Andy Beshear thinks so. Should men be permitted to use women’s restrooms because they identify as transgender women? Andy Beshear thinks so.
“What we found was the sports issue got the most powerful response from people, specifically conservative Democrats and independents,” Schilling would explain to me later.
“We wanted Bevin to win, but more than anything, we wanted to test this out before trying it at a much larger scale. Now, donors understand that although we came up a few votes short in Kentucky, this can still work. This is persuasive,” Schilling said.
"Should men be allowed to participate in sports events for women and girls?"
Really the most appropriate response to this framing is that men aren't participating in women's sports.
We all have both sets of the genes that control whether our bodies express male or female secondary sex characteristics. We're born with both male and female genetic code and it never goes away, it's simply a matter of which are being expressed and which are not.
The reason HRT works is because tipping the hormone balance from majority male to majority female or vice versa is telling the trans persons body "express female/male genes now" which results in real biological change, the same changes that cis people experience, the same genes that would be active were the person born as their target sex. After transition, trans people are biologically closer to their target sex than their birth sex, the literal tissue of their body has changed.
The language they use there would be hilarious if it wasn't, you know, horrible. Men against girls. Like there's a bunch of surly 35 year old men, absolutely dunking on a team of 5 year old girls just doing their best!
I had assumed, but didn't know it was a documented thing that we know happened. Thanks for sharing, and thanks OP, too.
Not that it matters, transphobes will make up whatever excuse they need to dismiss this like they do all other well documented science and facts, they just need so deeply to beat down on someone they see as inferior.
Fascinating. It doesn't look like they controlled for height/weight so it's not surprising that the grip strength of TW was so much higher than for CW. Agree with their conclusion that a larger cohort is needed for a longitudinal study rather than a cross-sectional one.
It sucks that everything these days get politically and ideologically bent out of shape. I just want to enjoy sports without all the hoopla and co-opting.
Just too excited waiting for the Paris 2024 to start, hopefully there will be less controversy and more human moments in sports.
Keep Being a Good Human and Calmly Carry On Being Excellent to One Another !
hopefully there will be less controversy and more human moments in sports.
Just no trans moments, since they're all being excluded, but sure, what's important is that there is no "hoopla" to distract you from your entertainment.. 🙄
So you're advocating generic testing for anyone who wants to play sports? What about people who are neither XX nor XY? Do you expect trans women to share locker rooms with men?
Any sports that is competitive requires testing to ensure that no one cheats or has an unfair advantage. If you are against testing in sports, then sports is not what you are looking for.
An Open participant category would solve almost every problem. Only the best of the best will win.
Traditionally, "Women" ( biological XX-chromosome Homo-sapiens ) had their own category due to their inherent physical weakness compared to "Men" ( biological XY-chromosome Homo-sapiens ) in almost every physical category. This allowed "Women" to compete on their own "safe" "fair" "even" "fair" playing field separate from "Men".
If you want a sports category "Trans-Woman" or "Trans-Man" or "Trans-any / Non-Binary" PLEASE GO FOR IT ! I am not saying anyone should be excluded from sports. But there are reasons that categories exist in sporting events. Be constructive or don't it is your choice.
Worth highlighting this part of the article since I've seen a number of people falsely claiming the opposite on lemmy.world lately:
Transgender women’s bone density was found to be equivalent to that of cisgender women, which is linked to muscle strength.
And this is not the first study showing this same trend
Similar findings have been echoed in previous reporting. According to a recent report that generated an in-depth review of all English-language scientific literature (published between 2011-2021) about transgender (trans) women athlete participation in elite sport, several key conclusions coincide with findings from the IOC funded study
