athairmor ,

Frank Luntz is a Republican “best known for developing talking points and other messaging for Republican causes.”

This is heavily biased. There are other articles out saying groups of independents lean more Biden after the debate.

Stop with the doomer takes on this one early debate.

lennybird OP , (edited )
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Edit: Where are these magical other groups of independents leaning Biden after the debate? Here's another via Reuters:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-presidential-debate-some-undecided-voters-see-disastrous-biden-night-2024-06-28/

In this instance, I would actually trust a Republican statistician over a Democrat to convey some semblance of reality given the damage-control within the Democratic party. But these are simply pollsters; and pollsters don't lie; and these are undecided voters in battleground states, specifically. So unless you can actually identify what is wrong with his methodology, I think you should consider this as a hard-truth... And it doesn't take much imagination to see how people could come away from that debate and lean toward Trump, considering universally everyone agrees Biden lost that debate in one of the worst performances in history.

Finally, why the fuck would Luntz show these data when it actually reveals a key issue with Democrats? If he was that biased, shouldn't he be fudging the numbers and giving false-data that swing-voters love Biden? Think this through.

Axios is reporting this, after all.

Nothing doomer about what has been a slow and steady decline in Biden's polling for months and months on end. This is more the final straw that broke the camel's back.

Pro-tip: When "internal polling shows something different" is said by the White House but they won't reveal the data, it means they're lying for damage-control.

Edit: I take it many of you didn't actually watch the debate, did you?

lennybird OP , (edited )
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Nate Silver and the NYT editorial board have both called for Biden to step down.

By every metric Biden is performing significantly-worse compared to his 2020 run against Trump. Biden needs to step down now while we have time.

This gives a huge opportunity for Democrats to take back the narrative and inject some excitement into nominating a fresh, younger, face. Free viral media attention would go on every day until the election and Democrats can turn around and say, "we listened to the electorate's concerns on age, are responding." Meanwhile the Republican propaganda machine wouldn't have prepared talking-points lined up.

Finally, look, I voted for Biden and I'd vote for a corpse if it came down to it, but it's not me you have to convince. We elected Biden because he said he'd take the fight to the bully. He's not the Teddy Roosevelt fighter we need to push a bully back. He's not convincing ANY battleground state swing-voters with a performance like that which will resonate over any subsequent teleprompter speeches he may give thereafter.

Edit: Hey folks, if you have the energy to down-vote, would you mind mustering a bit more to actually put your convictions to the test and discuss with me? I can otherwise only conclude you've got no substantive rebuttal and this is denial acting out. I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

PythagreousTitties ,

That'll never happen. But I think you're right. The instant goodwill would be enormous.

Have they even bothered with the next "rising star" at all?

lennybird OP , (edited )
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Man I've never seen media like this. I've watched:

  • 2 different NYT podcasts
  • Jon Stewart's comments
  • Kari Couric's discussion.
  • NPR's post-debate
  • Washington Week's round-table, led by The Atlantic editor-in-chief
  • Pod Save America (former Obama/Biden staffers)
  • Silver's analysis.

... And the sentiment behind Biden stepping down is vast. Talk behind closed-doors is that US House Democrats are extremely worried about their races given downballot effect.

I think it must be done or I'd absolutely bet on Trump winning in November, sadly.

PythagreousTitties ,

I'm usually wrong about important things, so I'm going to stick with it'll never happen lol

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

And sadly, the campaign response to this sentiment is not inspiring a lot of faith in their judgment. This after the NYT Editorial Board called on him to step aside:

“The last time Joe Biden lost the New York Times editorial board’s endorsement it turned out pretty well for him,” Biden campaign co-chair Cedric L. Richmond said in a statement.

Does he think that "LOL! Fuck you!" is the correct response here? The chorus of people in every corner of the country calling for him to step aside is deafening, and all he can muster is a Trump-style clapback?

Furthermore, at this point I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario where asking the incumbent to drop out would be more justified. Like, how bad would it actually have to get for the party to admit, "hey guys, this isn't fixable, time for Plan B"? Incumbency advantage is huge, but it's certainly not all-powerful.

lennybird OP , (edited )
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah agrees that is pure hubris and completely unfounded confidence, downplaying what is at stake in this election. We're fucked.

fluxion ,

They keep shooting their rising stars in the face because they want to remain Republican-lite

Ensign_Crab ,

Have they even bothered with the next “rising star” at all?

They haven't found one. It's like no one gets into politics to change nothing anymore.

PythagreousTitties ,

True. I wouldn't be a politician if you begged me. I've worked for one before. It's a nightmare.

It's also a huge problem, since most people won't do it either.

Ensign_Crab ,

I think you misunderstand me. Let me clarify.

Democrats haven't found someone who they want to be their next standard bearer because no one gets into politics because they want to change nothing anymore.

PythagreousTitties ,

Do you mean because they don't want to change anything anymore?

Your wording is very strange, sorry.

Ensign_Crab ,

I mean the party only wants people who don't want to change anything at all except for the worse, just like their Republican buddies, yes.

PythagreousTitties ,

Well, I commend you on learning English as a second language. But your statement is shortsighted.

Ensign_Crab ,

My statement is based on decades of watching Democrats not change shit and capitulating to Republicans.

PythagreousTitties ,

Right right. I too like to ignore bills that have been passed and who passed them 🙄

Ensign_Crab ,

You sure like to ignore bills that Democrats joined Republicans in blocking.

PythagreousTitties ,

Holy shit, you can speak English!

Ensign_Crab ,

Holy shit, you can read!

PythagreousTitties ,

Oh boy, you really "got me on that one".

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