It wasn't just the goblins — is J.K. Rowling doing Holocaust denial now? ( forward.com )

The most famous forms of Holocaust denial and revisionism tend to focus on Jews, casting doubt, for example, on how many were exterminated in the camps. But denying the impact the Nazis had on the other groups they targeted, including queer and trans people, disabled people and Romani people, is still Holocaust denial. Maybe someone should tell J.K. Rowling.

LadyAutumn ,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The amount of people defending her statements in this thread is absolutely disgusting. I wonder why she feels so emboldened as to say such horrific things in public?

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Lotta dipshits in the comments here, block button is working extra today.

fustigation769curtain ,

Who cares...?

The more you share these people, the more you support them.

LadyAutumn ,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

She's denying that nazis committed genocidal actions against trans people during the holocaust.

I get that that may not matter to you, but that is incredibly important to me. I cannot ignore when someone is trying to claim that trans people like me were not victims of the holocaust. I cannot ignore genocide denial. She had a real effect on politics and public opinion. It is very important that she be called out for her words and actions.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Once I found out that Harry Potter glorified the British class system by having it take place at an elite private school where people less privileged than them are looked down upon and even called names I was already turned off... but once I got to the obviously antisemitic goblins, I was done.

I wish it wasn't so damn popular.

Edit: I realize this article isn't about antisemitism. This is just another example of Rowling's bigotry.

rottingleaf ,

Like the main characters are looked down upon, you mean?

Goblins are not obviously antisemitic. They are a blending of various trolls\elves\dwarves of folklore.

Not any more antisemitic than Ferengi in Star Trek anyways. But Star Trek is leftist, so all you guys pretend it's not there.

You seem as intelligent as people who'd want to remove Nazis from movies about WWII (actually I'm not sure if I've met such specimen).

I wish it wasn’t so damn popular.

It's so damn popular because the author made many deep references, at the same time emotionally reaching the audience.

If you are not a brick or just as intelligent, you'd see that.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why did you decide to insult me? Did I insult you? Did I make a personal attack?

And I guess I'm not part of "all you guys" because I always thought that about the Ferengi.

Also, what did I want to remove and from where? Please show where I said I wanted to remove something.

As far as the goblins not being antisemitic-

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/j-k-rowling-s-harry-potter-goblins-echo-jewish-caricatures-ncna1287043

https://www.popdust.com/gringotts-warner-bros-2627451691.html

Not just her books, even the games based on them-

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/hogwarts-legacy-antisemitism-goblins-horn/

Did she do it intending to be antisemitic? I don't know, but it hardly matters.

Maybe I have the intelligence of a brick, but at least I don't tell lies about people like you did about me.

rottingleaf ,

You've made a personal attack against the author of one book I consider not terribly bad.

As far as the goblins not being antisemitic-

Somebody wrote an article and I'm supposed to assume that person is right and I'm wrong?

I'll quote the title seen even in the link you provided - "HP goblins echo Jewish caricatures". Have you considered even once that Jewish caricatures too did echo something aesthetically familiar? Or that the folklore I'm talking about grew intertwined with antisemitic beliefs?

Medieval-style fairy-tales always touch this subject.

And then this

Did she do it intending to be antisemitic? I don’t know, but it hardly matters.

and this

Maybe I have the intelligence of a brick,

form a syllogism.

Yes, it definitely matters, because to get rid of each and every antisemitic or similar ("middleman minority" etc) stereotype manifesting itself unintentionally you'd simply have to burn European-cultured countries with nukes and start from scratch.

Also I'm Jewish.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry... you're insulting me because I besmirched J. K. Rowling's honor? Are you her great protector?

And I don't care if you're Jewish.

rottingleaf ,

And I don’t care if you’re Jewish.

The point is that those things don't seem antisemitic to me and my opinion weighs more than yours.

Sorry… you’re insulting me because I besmirched J. K. Rowling’s honor? Are you her great protector?

I'm not insulting you, I just don't respect you and call you what you are. But, of course, you starting the thread with self-righteous crap make insulting you easier.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Imagine going this far out on a limb over a series of children's books.

rottingleaf ,

Nah, that's not the reason. I just really don't like people partaking in collective condemnation. They are worthless cowards.

Burn_The_Right ,

It's almost like conservatives are vile, grotesque garbage-based life forms who thrive on the misery and death of others.

Conservatism is a plague long overdue for a cure.

Lath ,

Conservative are also the people looking to save various fauna and flora from extinction due to unbridled human activities.
Are they also a plague?

You should avoid bringing negative connotations to words that can be or are a force for good.
Rename the evil if you want, but don't turn away the good as you focus solely on the bad.

Burn_The_Right ,

Conservative are also the people looking to save various fauna and flora from extinction

No. "Conservative" and "conservationist" are two very different words with two very different definitions. You seem to be confusing the two.

rottingleaf ,

It's almost like you were posting this in a space full of people who will agree with you just cause you are of the same bunch.

fustigation769curtain ,

Absolutely.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The person above apparently posts here specifically because they don't agree with us based on their responses in this thread. So I guess they don't understand why people would want to be around those they are in agreement with.

deweydecibel ,

The type of Holocaust denial they're suggesting she's doing wouldn't make her antisemitic, because she's not denying its impact on the Jewish people. It just makes her more transphobic, which we already knew.

Ekybio ,
@Ekybio@lemmy.world avatar

She knows she is doing it and doesnt care.

Like every conservative, they just want queer people dead, unless its their own children.

JoBo ,

She's not a conservative, she's a liberal (in the political science sense of the word, not the USian synonym for leftist).

It's not 100% clear where Rowling's transphobia comes from. She certainly fits into the group of transphobic cis women who have been abused by cis men and concluded that all men are evil, including the ones that want to be women.

But there's also a dynamic which I think you can see with Graham Linehan and Dave Chappelle as well. Born into comfortable middle-class families, well-educated, never really thought about their bog-standard liberalism. Became extremely successful, became accustomed to near universal adoration, made a thoughtless transphobic comment/skit, received criticism and reacted with absolute fury at the idea they could possibly be prejudiced about anything. Because they're liberals, you see.

All three just keep digging that hole deeper rather than face up to the idea that maybe they got something wrong. Linehan's career is over (as is his marriage), Dave Chappelle is hanging on by a thread and flirting with the right, and Rowling doesn't give a shit because she's a billionaire and does not have to give a shit about anything at all.

octopus_ink ,

She’s not a conservative, she’s a liberal (in the political science sense of the word, not the USian synonym for leftist).

No leftist self-identifies as a liberal in the US.

Liberal and leftist are synonyms to the US right such that everyone left of them is considered a "liberal", and the term is usually used pejoratively.

JoBo ,

It's usually used perjoratively by the left, tbf.

In the established party-political sense, Liberal is now clear enough. But liberal as a term of political discourse is complex. It has been under regular and heavy attack from conservative positions, where the senses of lack of restraint and lack of discipline have been brought to bear, and also the sense of a (weak and sentimental) generosity. The sense of a lack of rigour has also been drawn on in intellectual disputes. Against this kind of attack, liberal has often been a group term for PROGRESSIVE or RADICAL (qq.v.) opinions, and is still clear in this sense, notably in USA. But liberal as a pejorative term has also been widely used by socialists and especially Marxists. This use shares the conservative sense of lack of rigour and of weak and sentimental beliefs. Thus far it is interpreted by liberals as a familiar complaint, and there is a special edge in their reply to socialists, that they are concerned with political freedom and that socialists are not. But this masks the most serious sense of the socialist use, which is the historically accurate observation that liberalism is a doctrine based on INDIVIDUALIST (q.v.) theories of man and society and is thus in fundamental conflict not only with SOCIALIST (q.v.) but with most strictly SOCIAL (q.v.) theories. The further observation, that liberalism is the highest form of thought developed within BOURGEOIS (q.v.) society and in terms of CAPITALISM (q.v.), is also relevant, for when liberal is not being used as a loose swear-word, it is to this mixture of liberating and limiting ideas that it is intended to refer. Liberalism is then a doctrine of certain necessary kinds of freedom but also, and essentially, a doctrine of possessive individualism.

Keywords --Raymond Williams

octopus_ink ,

Good point that is also true and it's the reason no leftist self-identifies as a liberal. However, my comment was in response to this statement:

She’s not a conservative, she’s a liberal (in the political science sense of the word, not the USian synonym for leftist).

My point (which you are supporting) is that leftist and liberal are not synonyms in the US except to people in the US who apply the term liberal wrongly.

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