New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist ( www.middleeasteye.net )

Applicants for German citizenship will be required to explicitly affirm Israel's right to exist under a new citizenship law which came into effect on Tuesday.

The new law shortened the number of years that a person must have lived in Germany in order to obtain a passport, from eight to five years. It will also allow first-generation migrants to be dual citizens.

As part of the shake-up, new questions were added to the country's citizenship test, including about Judaism and Israel's right to exist.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

What kinda fascist, authoritarian bullshit is this?

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

The question doesn't ask if you support the current state of Israel though.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Maybe the last sentence is hard to see because it's under the picture, but I clearly wrote:

So by definition, no, I don’t recognize the current form of the Israeli state, which claims the entire Palestinian territory.

I explained the reasoning behind this stance in my previous comment.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

I specifically responded to your last sentence. If you are OK with for example Israel in the UN recognised borders of 1947, then you don't deny the right of the state of Israel to exist, which is all that is being asked for.

kbal ,
@kbal@fedia.io avatar

The intention is good I suppose, but it seems unfair to those who don't believe that nation-states in general have rights that should require our affirmation, even while they have many powers we must respect. Are they also made to affirm the right of Germany to exist? They've made a rule which denies would-be citizens the right to espouse anarchism, which seems like a step in the direction of removing human rights.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

As anarchists refuse the legitimacy of the state in general, they will have no problem to just fake it 😎

anzo ,

If only they did the same with Palestine... That would be even better! Of course, many countries (Germany included) are yet to recognize that country because of reasons (fear included, specially Germany!)

YourPrivatHater ,
@YourPrivatHater@ani.social avatar

There is no "Palestine" and when you think there is you get no citizenship here ☺️ and its our choice to decide who gets to vote here.

anzo ,

Why would you assume I have no citizenship "here"? Joke is on you...

gigachad ,

This is a good decision. Antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. 4782 antisemitic incidents in 2023, which is 83% more than the year before. 58% of these incidents occured after Oct 7.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

These statistic say little as the German police does not properly distinguish between antisemitism and anti-zionism.

But regardless, if you are so extreme in your views that you can't accept the existence of the state of Israel in some shape or form, you are probably not a good fit for German society.

YourPrivatHater ,
@YourPrivatHater@ani.social avatar

Its the same and there is no destinction by definition.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Lol what?

YourPrivatHater ,
@YourPrivatHater@ani.social avatar

It is by definition the same. And if you think otherwise, you can do so outside of Germany, at best outside of EU.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

It is not even closely the same by any definition.

Successful_Try543 ,

The definition used by German authorities subsumes antizionism, i.e. denying Israel's right to exist, as a special form of antisemitism.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

It is quite reductive to say anti-zionism is just denying the right of Israel to exist. Yes, the state of Israel is a deeply zionist project but you can accept the reality of this state existing and still be opposed to the idea of zionism in general.

I am opposed to the idea of colonialism in general but still accept the existence of states with a colonial history.

Successful_Try543 ,

That's a good point. I've always thought antizionism and denying Israel's right to exist where somehow identical.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

by any definition

The IHRA's definition does, so you can't say "any".

That said, the IHRA definition was pretty specifically created to be zionist and a shield for Israel, and should be rejected on those grounds.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Fine, you are of course technically correct 🙄

CaptObvious ,

How about “any sane or rational” definition?

idiomaddict ,

Ironic that this got you banned in c/Europe

CaptObvious ,

Found the Israeli troll

gigachad ,

I'm not sure what you want to imply here. I do not see the benefit in asking the offender why they beat up the Jewish person.

By the way, wever, I cited numbers from a study by RIAS (Wiki, German), this is not from a police statistic.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Incidence does not mean "beating up" someone. Spray painting "stop the genocide in Gaza" is sometimes counted as an "antisemitic incidence" in Germany.

alcoholicorn ,

While I don't doubt that more Germans are becoming more antisemitic, promoting zionism does not combat antisemitism. Lord Balfor (of the Balfor Declaration), was extremely antisemitic. He was very explicit about how removing jews from Britain and getting a shiny new colony were both positives.

But also that statistic is useless because a significant number people arrested in Germany for antisemitism since Oct 7 were Jews protesting against Israel.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Well, this is not creepy or fashy at all

teletext ,

You are right. It is not.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

🤡

YourPrivatHater ,
@YourPrivatHater@ani.social avatar

There is no right to get into our country for people that aren't on par with our way of life.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Well, this is not creepy or fashy at all

anachronist ,

Hey nothing's more German than genocide amirite?

YourPrivatHater ,
@YourPrivatHater@ani.social avatar

GOOD!

and everyone here without this mindset should be leaving.

CaptObvious ,

Fuck off

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Wow, i wonder who in the history of Germany also said such thing. Can't remember the name but I'm pretty sure it start with A and end with R.

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