MyPornViewingAccount ,

Ya know, if post Civil War reconstruction had actually happened and we'd de-confederated the South like we de-nazi'd Germany and Japan the GOP wouldnt exist today.

kashifshah ,

And we’d probably have actual human rights laws in America, instead of means-tested, drug-tested government aid.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Well, kinda, since the parties swapped roles in the Southern Strategy as a response to the civil rights movements, back then the democrats were the overtly racist ones. So we could assume the GOP would still exist but it would look nothing like the "modern" (hah) version.

MyPornViewingAccount ,

Yes, the nuance of the party swap in the 60s is lost on most people.

Thats how my ultra-maga relatives get to prpudly post on FB how theyre the party of Lincoln and in the very next post proclaim their hatred anything farther left than the taliban.

barsquid ,

"We're the party of Lincoln, that's why everything needs to be named after a Confederate general. State's rights."

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar
floofloof ,

Spelling errors in titles really grind my goat.

itsgroundhogdayagain ,

Let's drop Lindsey Graham on Gaza instead of a nuke.

KoboldCoterie ,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

Haven't Palestinians been through enough? You'd make them clean up Lyndsey Graham, too?

kashifshah ,

Cannabalism is against Islam, otherwise I’d say that at least they’d finally get some food in Gaza.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

When did the GOP become unhinged?

OlinOfTheHillPeople ,

1968

kashifshah ,

FJB? FLG!

WatDabney ,

Imagine how much better the world would be if there was just a simple process of psychological screening for would-be politicians, and psychopaths were barred from holding office.

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

There should also be a limit on how stupid they're allowed to be.

blindbunny ,

At this rate we'd have no politicians!

adespoton ,

Smart people put political proxies in power so they can get on with living their life.

There are only two reasons to become a politician and STAY a politician, and Graham is no Sanders.

kashifshah ,

Better screen for sociopaths too.

officermike ,

Ahh yes, dropping nuclear weapons right next door, risking fallout in your own territory and pissing off every country around you, as well as all your allies. Why not?

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

How dare you question the blinding brilliance that is Lindsey? I'm sure his masterplan accounts for things like inciting a global nuclear war with some clever solution that isn't just waiting it out in a congressional bunker with all his cowardly friends while we all die horribly, right?

kashifshah ,

indeed, the bunker has been upgraded to a SpaceX satellite mesh hotel.

breadsmasher ,
@breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

He can make both those statements. He should absolutely not be comparing them.

The decision to nuke japan was based on factors entirely different than any possible factor to nuke gaza.

In any sane world, senators suggesting dropping war crimes all over another country would be immediately removed

givesomefucks ,

The decision to nuke japan was based on factors entirely different than any possible factor to nuke gaza.

Pretty sure we're still handing out the purple hearts that were made in case a ground invasion was necessary.

Like, those stories about Japanese soldiers hiding for decades and never believing Japan surrendered? That was the common sentiment.

And loads more civilians were killed in traditional bombings.

It was the fact that one atomic bomb could do so much damage, and the Japanese had no idea how many we had. You could rebuild buildings destroyed conventionally. But atomic bombs could literally make land uninhabitable for generations.

That's what it took to make Japan surrender.

It was brutal and I hope it never happens again, but it was the best hand we could have played.

Windex007 ,

This is an interpretation of what happened. It's the one that paints America in the most favourable light, for sure.

Another one is that the "no surrender" mentality was a direct result of the terms of the Potsdam Declaration which demanded "unconditional surrender" from Japan. Japan knew they had lost, they were just hoping to fight for the SPECIFIC surrender condition of the preservation of the Imperial line (aka, let the Emporer still be the Emporer, preserve the family).

Had the Potsdam Declaration permitted that concession, it very well may have been the case that no nukes would have been necessary.

Anyways: tough to understand the exact truth of any hypothetical situation. I just think it's unfortunate that the "The USA HAD to, though" argument is so often repeated without a very full context of the surrounding political realities. It's a very bite sized explanation, and it paints the USA in a fantastic light.
It's perhaps not a coincidence that it was AT Potsdam that the west hinted to Stalin of the existence of the nuclear bomb.

What's the point of building the thing if you can't prove to the world you have it, and are willing to use it?

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Another one is that the "no surrender" mentality was a direct result of the terms of the Potsdam Declaration which demanded "unconditional surrender" from Japan. Japan knew they had lost, they were just hoping to fight for the SPECIFIC surrender condition of the preservation of the Imperial line (aka, let the Emporer still be the Emporer, preserve the family).

It should be pointed out that this is what ended up happening anyway. The emperor stayed in power and lived until like the 90s. So whoopsie daisy on the whole nuke thing

circuscritic ,

You are leaving out the historical context of hyper violent insane independent action for honor mindset of the soldiers within the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy (IJA/IJN).

This culture of insubordination included a widespread belief that they did not to have obey civilian commands, and is largely responsible for ground level soldiers deciding on their own to kick off the war in Manchuria.

It's entirely reasonable to envision a counterfactual version where either one of, or both the IJA and IJN refuse to surrender, or even just large contingents within either.

I'm not saying this to invalidate anything you've said, but I do think it's highly relevant context when considering any alternative ways that could have gone.

bufalo1973 ,
@bufalo1973@lemmy.ml avatar

The nukes were not thrown because of Japan but as a message to the USSR.

livus ,

Well no, the best hand you could have played would have been to drop them on military targets instead of civilian targets.

Those bombs were war crimes too; we don't need to invoke some kind of American exceptionalism for a war crime that happened 80 years ago.

barsquid ,

Internment camps are also war crime AFAIK. So it seems like the situation is just that the US government did not believe Japanese people were human and decided to do war crimes and human rights violations.

livus ,

Yes, I agree. WWII had a bunch of war crimes in it. I would rather we learned from them than we tried to justify them.

McNamara says of the firebombing of Japan that LeMay knew it was a war crime.

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