raccoona_nongrata ,
@raccoona_nongrata@beehaw.org avatar

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    docAvid ,

    Facebook is capitalist spyware and a social engineering tool. You have to remember that capitalism is not a normal power relationship, even though they have been working tirelessly to make the world believe they are -- capitalism is at the bleeding edge of techno-fascist authoritarianism.

    OK you get the idea, and I'm not trying to defend China, but they're just one of many powers - most private - that are using tools like this. I'd favor legislation to break them all up, to say any social network over a certain size has to federate, to say no one company or government can own more than one social network, lots of possibilities I would favor, but cherry-picking TikTok seems like Congress is working for Zuck. Taking out one of the big players just consolidates the incredibly dangerous power of the others.

    And truthfully, in my time scrolling TikTok, I've generally found the content to be a lot less manipulative, more liberal, and more democratic-leaning than on capitalist social networks, so if the CCP is actively using it for social engineering, they're doing a terrible job of it.

    ReversalHatchery ,

    I honestly don't think the title is accurate at all.

    As I know tiktok is not banned because it is a chinese platform, but because it is under heavy influence of the chinese government.

    Now that is an other thing too that they fear their loss of control over the media. I agree with banning tiktok, but not because they are from an other country, but for proper reasons of immense data mining and the ability of mass deception through it, but of course they won't outlaw that.
    It's so bad if it's true that everyday people have to turn to tiktok to discuss about isreal and their ties with the wide west, because facebook and twitter does not allow it.

    In the past I wasn't sure about how to treat currentaffairs articles, but that is not a question anymore.

    Quexotic ,
    @Quexotic@beehaw.org avatar

    I agree with you. I am afraid that there's no way to really ban it. All you need is a VPN to bypass whatever they come up with. What concerns me is that this just makes it security theater and puts on display the government's ineptitude with technology.

    This leaves me with the assumption that there is an ulterior motive that since this still sets precedent that though ineffective, they can misuse the precedent for nefarious ends.

    Just look at how China restricts it's internet. Could that become us?

    I do have anxiety about any limiting of free speech as well. That aspect of this situation is also concerning.

    ReversalHatchery ,

    I am afraid that there's no way to really ban it. All you need is a VPN to bypass whatever they come up with.

    I think it depends. Banning them from the main app stores is something too. That way at least users gain back at least some privacy, as anything constrained to a web browser has much much less access to device data than any app. I like to use the gyroscope and the compass as an example: it does not require a permission, it is a free for all, the tiktok app (and others too of course, including facebook) can basically infer from it's readings what are you doing, how are you traveling right now, and depending on sensor accuracy, to where.
    Maybe banning the website is too far, but I don't think that's needed to have some effect.

    This leaves me with the assumption that there is an ulterior motive that since this still sets precedent that though ineffective, they can misuse the precedent for nefarious ends.

    I fear that too

    Could that become us?

    I've just recently heard that my country made a contract with china to import surveillance tech. That is central EU.

    Quexotic ,
    @Quexotic@beehaw.org avatar

    I don't know, banning it from the app store would definitely reduce the number of users but if the app is already on the device it's not going anywhere. Plus it's a free app so at least with Android it's easy enough to side load it or get it from a website like APKPure or somewhere else. All you got to do is change a little setting and allow the installation of apps from unknown sources in your browser. This would have the effect of introducing whole new vectors for infection and compromise.

    On the flip side I do see it as a legitimate national security threat so really it's a no-win situation.

    ReversalHatchery ,

    but if the app is already on the device it's not going anywhere

    Google can remotely remove and install apps, even without user notice. I mean that it is a current (old) ability of their preinstalled software.
    But also, people change phones, or sometimes reset it.

    Plus it's a free app so at least with Android it's easy enough to side load it or get it from a website like APKPure or somewhere else

    Not sure how many of them would try that. Most average people don't know how to use their phone, only how to use the services made for them. Or at least that's how I see it nowadays.

    Quexotic ,
    @Quexotic@beehaw.org avatar

    Not sure how many of them would try that. Most average people don't know how to use their phone, only how to use the services made for them. Or at least that's how I see it nowadays.

    They're one YouTube video away from VPN and APKPure.

    Google can remotely remove and install apps, even without user notice.

    TIL. Time to think a little harder about de-googling.

    ReversalHatchery ,

    TIL. Time to think a little harder about de-googling.

    As a proof, open the app's page on the play store on your web browser on PC, you'll be offered to install the app to one of your devices logged in. It's the inverse, not the exact thing I said, but closely related

    millie ,

    I partly agree with this, but I think they're missing a lot. Social media has dissolved into a soft power war. Full stop.

    A glance at reddit, facebook, or even lemmy's bigger instances makes it pretty clear pretty quickly that the internet's packed full of astroturfers. Some of them for private companies or for scammers, some of them for governments, but they're all over the place. And people are really bad at spotting them.

    I think it makes sense to want to head off another Facebook, but I don't think this is necessarily the right approach. Educating the public would probably go a lot further.

    But Current Affairs takes some truly weird perspectives on US foreign policy. I read the article about the Bin Laden letter (which I fully agree with), and at the bottom there's a link to an article about how Americans shouldn't be bothered by Chinese spy balloons or make a big deal about it at all.

    Like, what? Okay, yeah, we spy on China too. Espionage between the world's two most significant superpowers is pretty expected. Anyone who's played Civ will not be shocked. But anyone who's played Civ also knows that it's bad for diplomacy. Yes, spying will happen. But yes also, it's bad when they get caught.

    It's pretty meaningless to morally censure spying. It's just a country doing what countries do. Are you going to get morally angry when someone scores a goal against your team in whatever sport? Of course not. You might get frustrated and boo and root harder for your own team, but that's not the same thing as thinking that the other team shouldn't be allowed to score goals on yours.

    I feel like Current Affairs wants the US to stop rooting for itself and root for China. Which is silly.

    esaru ,

    Many actions against another country are not based on the race of people living in it, but for political, economic, or military reasons.

    Randomgal ,

    It's probably not. It's more about "We are the only ones who should be spying on our own citizens" kind of deal. The racism is just part of standard US politics.

    reric88 ,
    @reric88@beehaw.org avatar

    I really, really hate TikTok for a lot of reasons, but strongly believe they should not ban it.

    NattyNatty2x4 ,

    It's not being banned. They're forcing the US portion of the company to be bought and run by an American company. To the users tiktok will remain, but the Chinese government will no longer have a direct line to the company leadership

    t3rmit3 ,

    Which, it's worth noting, is the same thing that China requires of all companies that want to operate in China.

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