Israel’s New Air War in the West Bank: Nearly Half of the Dead are Children ( theintercept.com )

Around 9:30 p.m. in late February, a white Mazda pulled up near a game cafe in the Jenin refugee camp on the northern edge of the West Bank, where a crowd of boys and young men often gathered to socialize.

As the car stopped, a few people walked by on the narrow street. Two motorbikes weaved past in different directions. “Everything was fine at the time,” according to an eyewitness sitting nearby in the camp’s main square.

Then the car erupted in a ball of flame. Two missiles fired from an Israeli drone had hit the Mazda in quick succession, as shown in a video the Israeli Air Force posted that night.

According to the IAF, the strike killed Yasser Hanoun, described as “a wanted terrorist.”

But Hanoun was not the only fatality: 16-year old Said Raed Said Jaradat, who was near the vehicle when it was hit, sustained shrapnel wounds all over his body, according to documentation collected by Defense for Children International-Palestine. He died from his injuries at 1 a.m. the next morning.

Jaradat is one of 24 children killed in Israel’s airstrikes on the West Bank since last summer, when the Israeli forces began deploying drones, planes, and helicopters to carry out attacks in the occupied territory for the first time in decades.

Flyswat ,

Hasbara is quite active on Lemmy recently

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, but I've been told that Gazans voted for Hamas, so they're getting what they deserve. Awfully young voting age they have in Gaza...

Altofaltception ,

Do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves? Or are we just going to call any retaliation "terrorism"?

BlameThePeacock ,

It's a war, they're both allowed to attack each other. Palestinians are going to lose though, the two sides are not equal.

All this peacefire talk is just a nice way of framing the Palestinian surrender. The only question is how long Hamas will keep fighting before they are forced to give in.

catloaf ,

No, they're allowed to defend themselves. You're not allowed to start a war, that's a violation of international humanitarian law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_ad_bellum

And before you reply, no, history did not start on October 7th.

BlameThePeacock ,

History for Israel started on May 14, 1948, 8 hours before the British protectorate ended.

The war started on May 15, 1948, when 5 Arab nations invaded Israel because they weren't happy with the UN borders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

Israel fought back, and has been fighting back ever since.

Eximius ,

"Fighting back" by heavily bombarding a Palestine area that has no offensive means due to decades of slowly administered austerity measures. From a land their diaspora didnt own for the last 2000 years...

Burstar ,
@Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

To be fair they literally asked for it and continue to do so by taking and not releasing the hostages.

Edit: It doesn't help that when killed the other civilians refer to them as martyrs. The whole thing is incredibly ugly and done for imo stupid reasons on both sides.

IndustryStandard OP ,

Israel is was holding hostages before October 7. You are implying that Israel asked for October 7.

Burstar ,
@Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No need to lie. Israel isn't innocent, but Hamas has a demonstrated reliable record of using civilian deaths for their ends. They are counting on your naivete to gain sympathy and support and you're falling for it when in actuality this is their ducks coming home to roost.

Surrender. Release the Hostages. Crisis averted. Do they? Nerp. Instead its "you're killing civilians like we've intentionally aimed for for decades! Unfair plane!"

IndustryStandard OP ,

No factually Israel had kidnapped Palestinians from the West Bank and held them hostage before October 7.

Burstar ,
@Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You understand 'imprisoning terrorists' /= 'holding hostages' right?

IndustryStandard OP ,

Yes these are different things. How is this relevant to Israel taking Palestinians hostage?

Burstar ,
@Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Because imprisoning terrorists is what it is correctly called

Keeponstalin ,

The difference is due to the military control Israel has over the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Palestinians are tried in a military court with no civil rights or representation, tortured into false confessions, and incarcerated with routine torture, sexual abuse, and denial of basic medical care. That includes hundreds if not thousands of children.

Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B'TSelem)

Palestinian Prisoners in Israel including Child abuse - Save The Children

Torture and Abuse in Interrogations - B'TSelem

Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy - NPR

Urgently investigate inhumane treatment and enforced disappearance of Palestinians detainees from Gaza - Amnesty

Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests

Burstar ,
@Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
Keeponstalin ,

Do you think all Palestinians are terrorists or something?

Do you understand the systemic violence of living under an Apartheid State?

BlameThePeacock ,

"no offensive means" except the rockets and a military of tens of thousands of people with guns

As for living there a long time... are you fucking stupid? Jerusalem is in Israel, and the Kingdom of Israel (which is in that vicinity) is mentioned in the original Hebrew fucking bible, which was completed around 2000 years ago. Jews have been living in that region since Judaism became a thing.

Eximius ,

No. Israel has 13bil in millitary means just from this year from USA, while Gaza is starving. Fuck off.

Just open other books as well. Plenty of books talk about lands controlled by long forgotten kingdoms. And many of these are actually history books, instead of religious gospel from influential figures.

BlameThePeacock ,

Yes, Israel is stronger than Palestine. Is that a crime? Palestine still regularly attacks Israel, they had to build a fucking missile defence system because of it.

Are you actually claiming jews didn't live in that region for the last two thousand years? There are thousands of historical records beyond just the bible proving that they did.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is a weak little bitch that relies on daddy America while pretending to be the toughest kid in the neighborhood. An old book does not justify genocide and ethnic cleansing.

catloaf ,

Maybe because the entire state of Israel was created by the British on what was at the time Palestinian land, and nobody else agreed to that. I'm not sure it's an invasion when a third party is saying it's someone else's now.

TokenBoomer ,

Theodor Herzl died in 1904-

It goes without saying that the Jewish people can have no other goal than Palestine and that, whatever the fate of the proposition may be, our attitude toward the land of our fathers is and shall remain unchangeable

BlameThePeacock ,

Yea, he died in 1904, 44 years before the invasion of Israel.

Just because some dude said "we should strive to take the land" fifty years prior doesn't give those countries a right to invade.

TokenBoomer ,

Nothing happened during that time.

BlameThePeacock ,

Nothing at all happened before even that...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

We can keep going back a thousand years if you want, this fight between the Muslims and Jews has records of attacks occurring between the two groups for at least that long.

At the end of the day the ottoman empire lost in WW1, the country got split up, and some of the people living there didn't like the new UN plan and called in their friends to invade.

Multiple sides fought, Israel won. If we want to reverse that shit, we should be demanding the reversal of the US invasion (and return all north america to native americans), we should be demanding the return of Finland(and a few neighbors) to Russia, we should be demanding the Chinese return their country to it's previous government (which is hilariously in Taiwan)... none of which we're going to do. So why should only the Palestinians get special return to original owner treatment?

The simple answer is they shouldn't.

TokenBoomer ,

Because bad things happened in the past, we must allow bad things to happen in the present and future. The logic is sound.

BlameThePeacock ,

The border things in Israel happened a long time ago. Israel has had official control of the Palestinian territories for decades.

The bad things that are happening now are primarily caused by Hamas attacking Israel.

TokenBoomer ,

Israel has had official control of the Palestinian territories for decades.

there’s the problem

BlameThePeacock ,

The US government has had control of the states for decades.

Is that a problem too?

When exactly did we decide that borders were no longer allowed to change when someone lost a war?

TokenBoomer ,

Might makes right. Isn’t that the same irredentism that Putin used to invade Ukraine? 🇺🇦

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