immibis ,

Did just defend itself at the ICJ by saying " has a right to exist"? Yes. Yes it did.

@israel @palestine

nicholas_saunders ,

@immibis @israel @palestine well, that's a question which Arafat declined to answer in the positive.

Asked differently:

what military action in response to the would meet with your moral and legal standards?

Because, dollars to donuts, you would have had Israel lay down its arms on Oct 7. Tell me I'm wrong.

sqgl ,
@sqgl@redspinning.top avatar

@nicholas_saunders @immibis @israel @palestine I would have preferred Israel keep their arms but not use them to invade. I would have preferred they immediately went into hostage-prisoner swap mode.

Not at the time mind you. I thought the response was reasonable at the time. I am not even Israeli or Jewish.

immibis OP ,

@sqgl @israel @palestine @nicholas_saunders we would have had Germany lay down its arms on 19 April 1943

nicholas_saunders ,

@immibis @israel @palestine @sqgl yeh, immibis, I get it, you don't have the courage of your convictions to answer such a simple question but feel the need to chime in with answers to questions I certainly never asked of you.

nicholas_saunders ,

@sqgl @israel @palestine @immibis and history may prove you right. It's entirely possible that Israel will leave the Gaza strip with their tail between their legs.

Arguably, it's Hamas calling the tune to which Israel dances.

faab64 ,

@immibis @nicholas_saunders NOTHING JUSTIFIES GENOCIDE.
NOTHING JUSTIFIES GENOCIDE.
NOTHING JUSTIFIES GENOCIDE.

Is it so fucking hard to understand?

nicholas_saunders ,

@faab64 @palestine @israel @immibis Farhad, as I'm sure you know, it's considered bad form to answer a question with a question.

faab64 ,

@immibis @nicholas_saunders I don't give a rats ass what you genocide apologist piece of shit think.

nicholas_saunders ,

@faab64 @palestine @israel @immibis when did you stop beating your wife?

faab64 ,

@immibis @nicholas_saunders OH dear, someone got triggered so badly, trying to turn it into personal insult.

I am sure you are a lovely and caring person who served proudly in IDF murdering innocent Palestinians, this is the last time I am responding to your garbage.

And for the last time, go and fuck yourself.

nicholas_saunders ,
immibis OP ,

@israel @palestine

Nicaragua: "Hey Germany, this is starting to look a lot like history and you're on the wrong side of it."

Germany: "Nonsense! Israel has a right to exist. Do you condemn Hamas?"

faab64 ,

@immibis
In what international laws and regulations we have the "right to exist" defined?

I have always wondered.

Did Soviet union have the right to exist?

Did South Vietnam have the right to exist?

Did Yugoslavia have the right to exist?

Does Kashmir have the right to exist?

Does Quebec have the right to exist?

Does Palestine have the right to exist?

Or is it just reserved for Israel?

@palestine @israel

immibis OP ,

@faab64 @israel @palestine only Israel.

faab64 ,

@immibis
I'm afraid it is so, and goes hand in hand with impunity and excempt from almost all international laws, including NPT.

@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@faab64 @palestine @israel @immibis

At the time, Nicaragua wasn't really sure that Ukraine has the right to exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_ES-11/1

faab64 ,

@tzafrir @immibis so what the fuck does it have anything to do with the subject?

No country has the right to exist, There is no such thing, it is all mane made agreement by some foreign powers or results of some tribes getting together to call it a nation instead.

Now go and suck the dick of Netanyahu and Ben-gvir, you deserve a candy for doing your citizen duties rightfully.

nicholas_saunders ,
nicholas_saunders ,
faab64 ,

@nicholas_saunders
I'm just done being polite with Genocide supporters.

6 months of the worst human rights abuse. War crimes and crime against humanity and these people still act like the are the civil ones and deserve to be treated politely.
@tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis

nicholas_saunders ,

@faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis

Polite? Leaving aside your remarkable rudeness, what's at issue is your circular reasoning and loaded questions in attempting to discuss serious issues.

Your ad hominem attacks are as weak and innefectual as the rest of your logic.

faab64 ,

@nicholas_saunders
I'm not here to discuss with pigs who whitewash a genocide.

I'm not here to argue about issues you bring up to hide that 2 million people are dying.

I'm not going to answer your questions to distract from half a million children starving because Israel doesn't allow food into Gaza.

Fuck your opinion.
Fuck your politeness.
Fuck your demands.

@tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis

nicholas_saunders ,

@faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis you ask? It's so remarkably presumptive and simplistic the views which you would project onto me. You start from a position where I, specifically, am so terrible that it precludes discussion.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

nicholas_saunders ,

@faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis

And you misunderstood the significance and context of "right to exist" as is relevant here. But God forbid that we discuss that two state solution you want. Or, rather don't actually want.

boojit ,
@boojit@mastodon.pundo.com avatar

@nicholas_saunders @faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis Nicolas dude do you always write in a way that can only be described as "highly punchable"?

nicholas_saunders ,

@boojit @faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis 😂

I dunno, dude. What's the prob?

immibis OP ,

@boojit @nicholas_saunders @faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel according to everyone who wrote, yes he does. You should report if he breaks any actual rules, then block him.

nicholas_saunders ,

@immibis @israel @palestine @boojit @tzafrir @faab64 how...interesting that your bullying side comes out so quickly...

from a certain perspective, that could almost be taken as an invitation to a fist fight, if not a physical threat.

Surely it was all in jest, ?

boojit ,
@boojit@mastodon.pundo.com avatar

@nicholas_saunders @immibis @israel @palestine @tzafrir @faab64 wow Nicholas you are totally winning this debate what's your secret

nicholas_saunders ,

@boojit @immibis @israel @palestine @tzafrir @faab64 there's nothing to win. I'm here to discuss a serious issue. You're unable to get past the personal.

boojit ,
@boojit@mastodon.pundo.com avatar

@nicholas_saunders @immibis @israel @palestine @tzafrir @faab64 You beg the question. A prerequisite for such a discussion is to agree with the statement that Israel must immediately cease fire and stop murdering Palestinian civilians. Do you agree with this? If not then -- and I cannot stress this enough -- go fuck yourself.

immibis OP ,

@boojit @nicholas_saunders @israel @palestine @tzafrir @faab64 Arguing with people who support the Holocaust is not very useful. The only way to deal with Holocaust supporters is to put them in prison forever.

Now, the person you're talking to obviously doesn't support the Holocaust - if I ever insinuated that he did, I could go to prison for saying so. But I just wanted to remind you if this principle anyway.

faab64 ,

@tzafrir @nicholas_saunders @immibis

Can you please remove me from this discussion, I don't want to engage or be involved in anything these 2 genocide supporting assholes are in

tzafrir
nicholas_saunders

Thanks.

@boojit @palestine @israel

immibis OP ,

@faab64 @israel @palestine @boojit @nicholas_saunders @tzafrir use your instance software's feature to ignore the conversation. I'm not the fedi police.

faab64 ,
BetaCuck4Lyfe ,
@BetaCuck4Lyfe@kolektiva.social avatar
fuller ,
@fuller@fosstodon.org avatar

@nicholas_saunders

@faab64 is one of my favorite assholes here. He doesn't know jack shit about Israel (other than the names Netanyahu and Ben Gvir), but he rains down invective on every one of us.
Other than shitposting, I'd like to know what @faab64 is doing to take action at this time of crisis.

@tzafrir @immibis

trumpedupbunkocharge ,
@trumpedupbunkocharge@mastodon.world avatar

@fuller @nicholas_saunders @faab64 @tzafrir @immibis
I'm sure he feels the same way about you stupid douchebags.

nicholas_saunders ,

@trumpedupbunkocharge @fuller @faab64 @tzafrir @immibis

😂

Look, be upset, get angry. Fine. But this notion that if I don't share your views then...what? That makes me evil?

That's just not how functioning adults communicate. It's weird.

Go shout in the street. But it is a complex situation. These notions getting shouted about, belong in beauty contestant's mouths and just aren't to be taken seriously.

The crowds, yes, that's serious. But the ideas being propagated? Un serious.

immibis OP ,

@nicholas_saunders @trumpedupbunkocharge @fuller @faab64 @tzafrir you believe that "holocausts are bad" should not be taken seriously?

immibis OP ,

@faab64 @nicholas_saunders @tzafrir if they're in Germany it is illegal to think any other way and you will be arrested if the police catch you thinking any other way.

faab64 ,

@tzafrir @immibis @nicholas_saunders That is the definition of 1984 style police state.

Germany is truly turning back time 100 years and changing the targets but copying the disgusting behavior.

immibis OP ,

@faab64 @israel @palestine @nicholas_saunders @tzafrir you can think that but the law says I have to say there is no Holocaust in Pa Le Stine.

nicholas_saunders ,

@immibis @israel @palestine @tzafrir @faab64 you guys are lost and have no idea why the "right to exist" is even being mentioned, and engage the most egregious forms of logical fallacies and propgandistic language.

faab64 ,

@immibis
I would not call it a holocaust. We still not there.

But it is clearly an active attempt to commit Genocide by military actions. Preventing entrance of food, water and medicine, denying critical care, targeting aid workers, attacking injured civilians and use them as bait to attack anyone trying to help them, actively bombing clearly marked ambulances and press vehicles and staff.

Sadly, people still want us to believe this is a "war" and not an attempt to abhiliate the entire population of Gaza.
@tzafrir @nicholas_saunders @palestine @israel

immibis OP ,

@faab64 @israel @palestine @nicholas_saunders @tzafrir in your opinion, what is a Holocaust?

In German law, there can only ever have been one Holocaust - it was a unique event committed once by the Nazis, which can never happen again by definition.

faab64 ,

@immibis
I have been a human rights activists for over 40 years.

It is counter productive and wrong to use terms to describe an event when proper use of terms can have both stronger and actionable reaction.

An act of Genocide, is what Israel has been doing in Gaza and part of occupied West Bank by intentionally preventing entrance of food, medicine and water into the besieged areas creating near famine situation.

Israel is not stupid, it has been playing this sick gameing enough to know where the legal definition of enforced famine, active genocide abd holocaust are. That is why they allowed food drops. . minimum aid entrance and changed their military strategies.

Holocaust, by strong push by Jewish lobby has been limited and copy righted to only be referred to the events of Nazi Germany against the Jewish population of Europe. But the legal definition of an action to be classified as holocaust is mostly used for those events because

The word Holocaust is derived from the Greek holokauston, a translation of the Hebrew word ʿolah, meaning a burnt sacrifice offered whole to God. This word was chosen, and gained wide usage, because, in the ultimate manifestation of the Nazi killing program—the extermination camps—the bodies of the victims were consumed whole in crematoria or open fires.

Therefore it would be really useful to focus on what Israel is actually doing and try to get them punished for it, GENOCIDE and Ethnic Cleansing plus systematic, supported and government sanctioned war crimes.

These are the terms that can be used to legally hold Israel accountable for what they are doing and sensationalism and emotionally triggered comments don't do anything other than giving the Israeli army of bots and apologists to discredit everything else by hiding behind such word games that sadly many people accept and react to.

@tzafrir @nicholas_saunders @palestine @israel

nicholas_saunders ,

@faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis Definitely, take it court. better than actual war, if that works.

Surely you'd want Hamas standing tall before the man. More than a few commentators, with credentials far in excess of your own, have pointed out this option.

South Africa intentionally and strategically prevented such an occurrence. This is unlike China persecuting minorities and unlike other such scenarios.

To start with, there was a cease fire. At one point.

gfkdsgn ,
@gfkdsgn@burma.social avatar

@immibis @israel @palestine @nicholas_saunders @tzafrir @faab64

Beside it's called US holocaust what happened to native Americans, the german legal definition isn't correct at all. Pls, take a look...
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_%28Begriff%29

nicholas_saunders ,

@immibis @tzafrir @faab64 that's just nonsense -- you can think what you want.

'outlaws "use of symbols of unconstitutional and terrorist organizations" outside the contexts of "art or science, research or teaching".'

outside of art...

Hogans Hero's was extremely popular at one time. Full of nazi salutes and whatnot.

You're wrong about everything.

immibis OP ,

@nicholas_saunders @tzafrir @faab64 feel free to continue going by what the law says. I go by what actually gets people arrested in the real world. The German government just seized the bank account of a group of Jews for the crime of organising a conference about Palestine. You're blocked now btw since your comments contribute no value.

RD4Anarchy ,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@faab64 @tzafrir @palestine @israel @immibis

>>No country has the right to exist...<<

I agree with this.

>>...or results of some tribes getting together to call it a nation instead.<<

This might not be so objectionable, but it is certainly not the origin of any country in the world today, and probably not any real state ever. States form around an elite; imposed from the top down, never from the grass roots.

justicesandwich ,
@justicesandwich@mastodon.social avatar

@faab64 @palestine @israel @immibis

Have you researched history?

Start with Jews. Where have existed, and moved to historically.

Next research the barbaric actions of the USA in comparison to this incident you feel is worse than 750,000 starving and dying of cholera, the 300000 missing Ukrainian children, the work camps for Muslims of a specific faith.

Now how does it compare?

We have access to amazing knowledge. Use to it. Let's debate. Then let's make positive changes.

faab64 , (edited )

@immibis @justicesandwich Oh dear, here comes even more garbage out of the brain diarrhea of a person using whataboutsism, that hey, it is not THAT bad, they are not gassing or burning their bodies like German did. Or chop their hands like they did in Rwanda, or bind them together and burn them inside their houses like they did in Myanmar.

I am sure, during those crime, you had also excuses to support them or justify inaction and compliance of the world to prevent them from happening too.

immibis OP ,

@justicesandwich @faab64 @palestine @israel what you appear to be saying is: the Rwandan genocide was fine because at least it wasn't the Holocaust.

justicesandwich ,
@justicesandwich@mastodon.social avatar

@immibis @israel @palestine @faab64

That's not what I'm trying to say at all.

I'm not even sure the Holocaust is the worst, because how do you measure evil against others?

I'm saying comparing numbers of humans dead and asking for balance is the wrong approach... But... You win, I'll delete my comment

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