amberage ,
@amberage@eldritch.cafe avatar

and fediverse, help me out here, please.

A while ago, I saw a comment somewhere (not necessarily fedi) that boiled down roughly to this:

"The British aristocracy made their (edit: male) servants recognisable as such by dressing them in formal clothes, but in mismatched combinations (i.e. tailcoat with a black bowtie, long tie with a wing collar)."

This was (roughly speaking and to the best of my knowledge) about the Victorian through Edwardian and early Modern periods, i.e. when formalwear as we know it (morning coat, tailcoat, etc.) already existed in roughly the form we know it.

I can't find that comment anymore, and I don't expect I ever will, but it would be fascinating to read more about this subject, very specific and niche as it is. I've tried googling around for it (i.e. "historical british servant dress codes"), but found very little.

If anyone has some reading material on that (preferably online or books buyable online, if not I'll have to see if my library can get foreign (english) literature), I would be super grateful for any links or the likes.

@histodons

GenXLife ,
@GenXLife@toad.social avatar

@amberage @histodons

I would start with the Tudor period and work to the Victorian. The Tudor sumptuary laws may contain sections/clues on livery that you can trace forward to Victorian and Edwardian periods.

WanderingBeekeeper ,
@WanderingBeekeeper@weirder.earth avatar

@amberage @histodons I specialize in the late Victorian / Gilded Age era, and I've not run across this in my reading. I did run across several references to ladies' maids being dressed in their mistress' castoffs, and readily recognizable as the Help by the shabby, outmoded appearance, and distinct marks such as wear across the upper part of the toe of the shoe, from kneeling to pin up their mistress' skirts. Footmen, who answered the door, attended the carriages, and performed a variety of similar menial tasks, were distinguished by an antiquated style of dress, often wearing knee breeches and high stockings a full century after those went out of style. I've not got anything on the upper levels of the staff, such as the butler, who certainly would have been dressed better, being an important person in charge of a number of provision keys.

amberage OP ,
@amberage@eldritch.cafe avatar

@WanderingBeekeeper @histodons yeah this is more about butler, chauffeur, male waitstaff at in-house events, etc.

One example (but not historical) I could bring would be i.e. Oddjob in Goldfinger: black suit, wing collar (at that time exclusive to full evening dress with white bowtie), long black tie

amberage OP ,
@amberage@eldritch.cafe avatar

@WanderingBeekeeper @histodons I've no idea if it's true, is the thing, it might as well be a bit of pseudo history like they tend to show up on the web, that's why I'm asking

amberage OP ,
@amberage@eldritch.cafe avatar

@histodons still looking, btw

negative12dollarbill ,
@negative12dollarbill@techhub.social avatar

@amberage @histodons

Guesses for accounts which might know:

@hilarydoda
@BHO
@natania

tuban_muzuru ,
@tuban_muzuru@ohai.social avatar

@amberage @histodons

I will bet on Victoria and Albert Museum having the info you seek.

https://www.vam.ac.uk/

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