LarmyOfLone ,

Not a single paragraph about the actual demands of Russia. Which they have stated often enough. Basically they don't want NATO right on their doorstep. This is what this whole war was about. But somehow this is never seriously discussed in western media.

Skua ,

If this war was about having NATO on their doorstep, why is it an invasion of a non-NATO country twenty years after the first neighbours of Russia joined NATO? It's never seriously discussed because it's either a lie or unfathomably stupid, and whichever of those two it is doesn't much matter.

Just for a second, imagine you're a neutral country in eastern Europe. Russia has been fucking with Georgia and Moldova since the fall of the Soviet Union, and now it invades Ukraine for the second time within a decade. Russia has never touched a NATO country despite bordering several of them for literally decades. And then Russia acts all shocked when you say you want into NATO

freagle ,

Because Europe never invaded Russia through the border at Belarus. They always invade Russia through Ukraine. First Napoleon, then the Third Reich.

Russia was appeasing the fascist West as they expanded their multinational nuclear military without democratic accountability into territories populated with leave-behind armies of fascists that they created. Ukraine was the obvious redline because it is the dominant strategic border, as demonstrated by all European and Russian military strategists in history.

You're confused about history because you don't understand it.

LarmyOfLone ,

Yeah and Russia protested strongly every time. But Ukraine was their red line. Just because you didn't read it in western media doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I don't condone the invasion but it was predictable and a colossal "failure" of diplomacy if you look at it charitably. At worst it was a long term plan to force Russia into a conflict with the aid of western media to obscure the reason why this war was happening. Russia is acting just like the US would.

Pan_Ziemniak ,

I guess ignoring how Ukrainians ran the russian puppet heading their country out of the country just before the Crimean invasion of 2014 is convenient for your point.

Appeasement does not work. It has never worked. It didnt work in Sudetenland, it didnt work in Crimea, and it would never have worked with Donbas, either.

frauddogg ,
@frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You mean when the occupiers of Turtle Island couped Poroshenko Yanukovych and installed a regime full of Banderite proto-nazis? Yeah, I remember that; my next door neighbor got his old home ransacked, raided, and eventually flattened by the fighting that came to his city. He barely made it out alive; and STILL has to look up and down the street before he opens his door so we can talk-- just so he can make sure someone's not trundling down the drive to drag him back. I remember that well.

FiskFisk33 ,

Then turning Ukraine into Russian territory is a bit counter productive no? That would literally bring NATO to Russias doorstep.

LarmyOfLone ,

They want a buffer zone. Makes sense in terms of military strategy.

FatLegTed ,
@FatLegTed@feddit.uk avatar

But NATO already is on their doorstep. Norway, Estonia, Poland etc. Even USA is only a few mils away across the Bering Strait.

This is not about Ukraine joining NATO, that's a convenience.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

That's just such galaxy brain logic there. We've already built up a threat on your doorstep, so you shouldn't worry about us expanding that threat further. 🤡

Furthermore, Stoltenberg has now publicly admitted that this is in fact about Ukraine joining NATO

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

You gotta update your script now.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

America will never allow this war to end.

Doesntpostmuch ,

Bad take. Why negotiate with an aggressor who is literally invading and trying to absorb a neighbor. You would be rewarding that behavior and Russia gets to stop their unpopular war at the same time.

cranakis ,

I think that if Russia got the fuck out of Ukraine, we'd happily let the war end.

Mongostein ,

You know who has total power to end this war? Putin. Just get the fuck out of Ukraine and it’s over.

There’s really nothing to negotiate.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

or because all putin has to do is stop invading ukraine. he doesn't get to invade and then negotiate to keep part of the place he invaded

mashbooq ,

based US

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