fuckingkangaroos ,

There are already way, way too many people on the planet.

jax ,

"Dad, why is my sister's name Octavia George?"

"Because your mother loves the Roman Empire."

"Thanks Dad."

"No problem Industry Americus."

Socsa ,

Does anyone else feel like we are setting up to a near future where people who choose not to have kids are seriously discriminated against?

saucerwizard ,

Yes. Alongside a resurgence in anti-lgbt stuff.

gerikson ,
@gerikson@awful.systems avatar

The entire "the world is running out of people" meme is just an attempt to find a non-religious rationale to limit reproductive choice.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

i thought it's mostly repackaged great replacement at this point

gerikson ,
@gerikson@awful.systems avatar

porque no les dos?

JackRiddle ,

Yeah, when talking about certain countries and groups of people it's suddenly "oh no we are having overpopulation" and "[people in africa/asia/with a different skin colour from mine] need to stop breeding"

Shelbyeileen ,
@Shelbyeileen@lemmy.world avatar

It's already here. I was sterilized (I don't want kids, have a SEVERE genetic disability that I'd passn on, can't afford my own house, like to sleep in, enjoy traveling, think the world is overpopulated enough, etc) and get attacked by men and women anytime I mention it.

I've apparently

  • "destroyed my body"
  • "Fucked up the only reason women exist"
  • "Chosen to die alone"
  • "Failed my country and family"
  • "Made a selfish decision"
  • "Chosen to be a slut instead of a mom"
  • "Become useless to any man"

The list goes on. If I change my mind, I'll adopt. There's nearly 400,000 children in the US foster care system and that number has nearly DOUBLED since Roe v Wade...

HubertManne ,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

Id rather starve than enslave children

newtraditionalists ,

"Malcolm had a turbulent childhood that he clearly doesn’t want to talk about. He comes from a wealthy family and grew up in Dallas, but was sent to a “troubled teen” residential facility when he was 11. The only reason he can give me for being sent there was that his parents were getting divorced and were locked in a bitter custody dispute, and the judge “thought I shouldn’t be with either parent”. After that, he lived at a private boarding school, with his fees and expenses covered by a family trust. “I have no beef with my parents. My childhood was hard, but my adulthood has been easy. Can I say a parent did a bad job if I’m happy with my life today? I don’t think so.” "

L to the O to the motherfucking L. These people are just reacting to their trauma and acting like they've found some magical answer to life being hard. Their poor children.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

After that, he lived at a private boarding school

expenses covered by a family trust

My childhood was hard

oh no trust fund baby had hard childhood

however, it's nowhere as hard as their children childhood is gonna be

dgerard Mod ,
@dgerard@awful.systems avatar

Every article on pronatalism in the past few years has been these two Thiel-sponsored white nationalist dweebs and nobody else. Why the fuck does the Guardian fall for this shit too.

jonhendry ,
@jonhendry@iosdev.space avatar

@dgerard

I contacted the reporter via her website, to ask what motivated the story when the Guardian just wrote about them last year, and if the couple's PR rep (who I assume exists) had instigated it.

I don't really expect to hear back but it sure would be interesting to know.

mpk OP ,

It's worth noting in the Grauniad's defence that the piece which mentioned them (among others) last year wasn't a commissioned interview article, it was a column by Arwa Mahdawi. Columnists usually have a regular gig to write opinion pieces on some topic relevant to their interests and then submit them for publication -- in other words, they don't have an editor telling them to go and cover something, they write about what they feel like writing about even if it turns out to be at odds with the paper's editorial policy (e.g. Simon Jenkins, who is a Guardian columnist despite regularly expressing some highly un-Guardian-reader views). As Mahdawi is a columnist who regularly focuses on feminist issues and the United States this would be entirely within her field of interest.

Still doesn't mean these people deserve yet more coverage, though. I hope their kids get out of this toxic family having suffered as little harm as possible from a mother who apparently thinks that the only solution to "cheap, good-quality snowsuits bought from Russia" not fitting when you're pregnant is dressing like a tradwife and a father who really doesn't seem to like them and who does an abuse in front of a journalist which he thinks he can just explain away with pseudoscientific bullshit as "hey, that looked like abuse but it wasn't, it was SCIENCE".

maol ,

I really really don't get how wearing a corset* while you're pregnant is somehow the most rational option

*Don't come @ me corset fans, I'm sure they are very comfortable, but while you're pregnant? Eight months pregnant?

Soyweiser ,

some weird pseudoscience justification for why it’s okay to hit your kids.

It is to me so weird how often this comes up. A big plot point in starship troopers (the book) was that due to not hitting kids (and a vague handwave at criminals but mostly kids) western democracies fell for example.

Now I wonder how the NRx with their pro corporal punishment stance (which iirc Scott liked) feel about hitting kids.

Im also annoyed at how much words are written about the Collins. Stop promoting these doofuses. (They have come up in sneerclub before)

E: a thing I was wondering about, with the pronatalist technofetishists, who say that both we will all die out by lack of births as old people starve, and who fetishize AGI and robot labour causing a post scarcity world, that seems contradictory, I wonder how the Rationalists deal with this contradiction.

mpk OP ,

Im also annoyed at how much words are written about the Collins. Stop promoting these doofuses. (They have come up in sneerclub before)

Apologies. First time poster, all that stuff.

The corporal punishment thing is a weirdly Anglophone obsession -- assaulting (sorry, "smacking") your kids has been a crime here since 1977 and the kids seem to be alright as well as having the bonus of being less likely to have grown up surrounded by violence and the threat of violence. In 7 years here I've seen exactly one person hit a child in public (looked a lot like a visiting grandma from elsewhere) and it came as a real shock. The more the Collins types (and, of course, fundie types) try to justify this as "normal" the less normal it appears to everyone else.

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

now you've got me wondering if it's anglophone imported culture war, or are there some other influences, like catholic church, and to what degree

when corporal punishment was banned in my country in 2010, it was preceded by informational campaign on the state side and intolerable bitching by conservatives. when the law passed, conservatives shut the fuck up about it seemingly forever, it would make sense if it was cultural import that is if they never really held these opinions

Amoeba_Girl ,
@Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems avatar

I believe it's true of more or less any country: most people are pro-hitting kids until you ban the practice and it becomes obvious that it's unacceptable (at least in overt discourse). Premier exemple of the educational potential of a law.
(And now the right can pivot to racist rhetoric about which demographics don't accept our rules and hit their kids.)

mii ,

The Collinses are atheists; they believe in science and data, studies and research. Their pronatalism is born from the hyper-rational effective altruism movement

This is just gonna be eugenics, isn’t it?

Malcolm describes their politics as “the new right – the iteration of conservative thought that Simone and I represent will come to dominate once Trump is gone.”

What’s that now? Neo-alt-right? You can’t just add another fucking prefix anytime your stupid fascist movement goes off rails.

One of the reasons why I chose to have only have two children is because I couldn’t afford to give more kids a good life; the bigger home, the holidays, the large car and everything else they would need.

Yeah, what about giving them love or a warm relationship, or, you know, time?

And then they wonder why those generations have shitty relationships with their parents when they seriously believe that what they need is a big fucking car, as if that’s the variable that was missing in all of this.

Excuse me while I go and hug my daughter. I need to de-rationalize myself after reading this.

Soyweiser ,

What’s that now? Neo-alt-right?

I assume it is neoreaction. Not sure if you are a recent poster here, or were aware of sneerclub when it was on reddit but we talked about NRx there every now and then. (Not a fan).

I don't know if the Collins are NRx, what I do know is that neoreactionary podcasters love the Collins. (According to a quick google search). And bonus for David Gerard, Grimes has reached out to the Collins source is the grimezs long post on Grimes her links to all this shit

dgerard Mod ,
@dgerard@awful.systems avatar

they are sponsored by Thiel, so 'ave a bleedin' guess

Soyweiser ,

Ow yeah, it certainly paints them in a very bad light, and I will not argue against others calling them NRx, or neo-nazis, I just like a little bit more proof myself because im a bit pedantic at times, but in practice it doesn't really matter if the 'we worry about great replacement r-strategists(*) racists' are NRx/nazis or not).

*: For those just tuning in. (Turn back! Stop reading! Go away, innocence once lost cannot be regained!) claiming non-white people are r-strategists while white people are K-strategists is a big far right foghorn. (wiki page on the theory) In their bs theory they ignore that this is about differences between species (of course they are also racists so yeah, this isn't hypocritical on their part, just a sign of racism), and r-strats are physically impossible for humans, as we don't have enough nipples + we take too long to mature etc.

dgerard Mod ,
@dgerard@awful.systems avatar

yeah, at that point we're past "quacks like a duck" and "precise subspecies of mallard" into which groups are hanging out in which ponds this week

o7___o7 ,
@o7___o7@awful.systems avatar

What’s that now? Neo-alt-right? You can’t just add another fucking prefix anytime your stupid fascist movement goes off rails.

It reminds me of how terrible sports teams will frequently change their logo and uniforms. (e.g. Vanderbilt's University's gridiron football team). Obviously, their lack of success is a branding problem.

Amoeba_Girl ,
@Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems avatar

Malcolm and Simone Collins with their children – Octavian George, four, Torsten Savage, two, and Titan Invictus, one – at home in Pennsylvania.

bye

mawhrin ,
@mawhrin@awful.systems avatar

they definitely missed out on naming two of the daughers ursa minor maior and ursa maior minor.

Soyweiser ,

Their next kid will be named Ultima Thule, and they will claim very loudly that this is just because they are so big fans of astrology and that they never heard of the controversy regarding the name.

gerikson ,
@gerikson@awful.systems avatar

jfk

Ultima Thule was a Swedish white nationalist band back in the day.

Soyweiser ,

Ow yeah I'm joking here. But it was really weird that they tried to name the asteroid Ultima Thule (and it is also odd that this controversy isn't on the wikipage).

cstross ,
@cstross@wandering.shop avatar

@gerikson The name predates the white nationalist band by several centuries. Per wiki: "In classical and medieval literature, ultima Thule (Latin "farthest Thule") acquired a metaphorical meaning of any distant place located beyond the "borders of the known world"."

I suspect they renamed the KBO Arrokoth precisely to avoid the unfortunate recent connotations of the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule

gerikson ,
@gerikson@awful.systems avatar

Oh I am aware of the term's history[1], but just like the humble swastika some stuff can become tainted (although I believe that Ultima Thule the band is only locally infamous here in Sweden). I do know that if someone presented themselves as Ultima Thule I'd do a spit-take, but so would I if I was presented by someone named Titan Invictus.

Arrokoth is a fucking metal name tho.

[1] pretty sure the first I heard of it was in one of Evan S Connell's great collection of essays.

EisFrei ,
@EisFrei@lemmy.world avatar

Titan Invictus ... Are they playing Star Citizen?

dgerard Mod ,
@dgerard@awful.systems avatar

they're nazis, bob

jonhendry ,
@jonhendry@iosdev.space avatar

@Amoeba_Girl

Guardian failed the “don't promote these specific cunts for 14 months challenge”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/apr/20/pro-natalism-babies-global-population-genetics

AllNewTypeFace ,
@AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space avatar

Perhaps the NRx-curiosity is a natural consequence of the Guardian’s “gender-critical” editorial stance? Look at all the other TERFs jumping into bed with actual masks-off Nazis.

gnomicutterance ,
@gnomicutterance@awful.systems avatar

My vibe is that the Guardian UK still thinks it's a left wing feminist stance to be transphobic ^1^, and unrelatedly, the Collins articles keep getting printed because everyone involved --- the Collinses, their PR people, the Guardian -- know perfectly well what ragebait is. A click is a click.

1: Somehow. What the hell is in the water in the UK? ^2^

2: Cryptosporidium

mawhrin ,
@mawhrin@awful.systems avatar

the fascism is strong in those

maol ,

They bought this house and the one next door for $575,000; they allow their neighbours to live in the second house rent free, in exchange for childcare.

Seems normal !

maol ,

Wow, these people have not planned anything at all. They're going to homeschool all 7+ kids? And go into politics, a job that infamously has long, unsociable hours?

riskable ,
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

No, they're counting on not spending time with their children. Their worldview is all about populating, not educating.

In fact, if you pester any of these people how they would plan to educate all these millions of new children you'll quickly find out that either:

  • That is actually not planned for at all (hand waving).
  • They actually only want certain (White people of means) to be having lots of kids.
gnomicutterance ,
@gnomicutterance@awful.systems avatar

This is part of a whole thing where the journalist keeps presenting their framing without question. Is it “allow their neighbours to live in the second house rent free, in exchange for childcare” or is it “they have unpaid live-in nannies in a staff apartment”? Do they “give everything they can spare to charity” or are they landlords who own property they don’t live in? Is she wearing a corset and chemise from etsy because it’s practical, or because these weirdos have put on staged cosplay performances for every journalist who’s ever interviewed them, and you’re no exception?

perfect_brains ,
@perfect_brains@social.freetalklive.com avatar

@mpk

this is not necessarily true from the guardian

it is a prediction, but really fearporn to push people into accepting the guardian's political agenda

mawhrin ,
@mawhrin@awful.systems avatar

hey, everyone, look a this fucking clown: a bona fide breivik-praising fascist

perfect_brains ,
@perfect_brains@social.freetalklive.com avatar

@mawhrin

the commies' favorite label, fascist
but I think fascism means at least 2 things: a social and a political definition
which one of these 2 do you mean (don't say both)
and can you unpack your answer?
you should answer so you won't look stupid in front of "everyone"

Amoeba_Girl ,
@Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems avatar

your dumb

froztbyte ,

fuck me those prior posts hurt. at least they wear their shitty little sign, saves us some trouble!

mawhrin ,
@mawhrin@awful.systems avatar

the whole server is chock full of this type; i defederated the trash from circumstances.

Amoeba_Girl ,
@Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems avatar

omg a neo-nazi with bad reading comprehension that's so crazy

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