mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

This central idea is why I hate dune.

Having a so called prophesied savior capable of insane things coming from a distant royal family of some space empire is too stupid to believe in.

You can't be both the underdog and the king at the same time, especially when your own supporters treat themselves as expendable.

BedbugCutlefish ,
@BedbugCutlefish@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, that's the point of Dune? The 'prophesies' aren't real, they're seeded by the Bene Gesserit, the same group that spent millennia breeding the 'savior'. And, he's not meant to really be a savior, but their catspaw.

But also, he's definitely not actually a savior, on account of all the death he brings. It's complicated, but overall a deconstruction of white savior narratives and similar stories.

Emoba ,

Have you ever actually read it? The prophecies were deliberately spread over the universe by the Bene Gesserit. The department that does that is called the Missionaria Protectiva, they do that all over the universe so their members can manipulate the locals to be safe wherever they end up. This isn't supposed to glorify those prophecies, it's demystifying them to the point where religion as a whole is showcased as a mere tool to control the masses in later books. It's supposed to criticise the thing you're criticising.

qarbone ,

OP is why we can't have nice things. Because people will ignore things that should be obvious. So we're left with everything softball pitched to the lowest common denominator

TheObviousSolution ,

No, no, you see, because she grew up as a Poo Person she now understand the world from their point and realizes how much they've been abused, so she pledges to lead and create a new society because it all turns out to have been a big misunderstanding. Then Poo People learn magitek and we get a sequel with the spin that now they are the oppressors, followed by a movie adaptation that completely ends up killing a cult classic.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

Where my shitfolk at? Poo Nation rise up ✊

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

Gotta make people accept that rich dynasties owning everything is valid.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

The opposite of this is when Useless Loser Salaryman Was Born into The Other World As A Financial Consultant And Took It Over Using Only His Accounting Powers?!

LainTrain ,

Is there fantasy that isn't like this

CheeseNoodle ,

The basic options for magic are:

  • Sorcerers: Magic blood line or other innate gift of birth. Basically magic aristocracy.
  • Wizards: Usually anyone can be a wizard, its the magic equivelent of studying hard in college.
  • Warlocks: Anyone can be a warlock if they're willing to make a deal with the devil; the magic equivelent of dropping out to become a stripper.

Pretty much every fantasy has the magical aristocracy but the latter two are available to regular people in a lot of fantasies too, though wizardry is often gatekept and magical pacts tend to be for villains only.

OrnateLuna ,

I love comparing becoming a warlock to becoming a stripper

mister_flibble ,

While it's definitely PRESENT in Lord of the Rings, one could argue Frodo himself is a subversion of it. Giving the ring to someone powerful would almost inevitably result in corrupting them and (depending on just how powerful they were) would just make a new big bad. Hobbits work as ring bearers explicitly because they're not "special".

nik9000 ,

I've been listening to the Andy Serkis reading it lately. First experience since I was a kid. It's surprisingly nuanced for something so old and so baked into the popular culture. It's kind of amazing how flattened my memory of it from childhood is.

Dune as well. And Snowcrash too

mindbleach ,

Snow Crash is satire, though. And not exactly high fantasy.

Wxnzxn ,
@Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

How about this story about a young English boy that gets bullied by the poo people, until he finds out he is actually super special. And then he fights the super specials that want society to be structured around birthright, because he has a special born fate to stop them. All while the super specials have used their amazing magical powers, able to literally mold reality to their whims, to create their own version of liberal capitalism.

Hupf ,

And after all that our bloke decides to become a copper.

Mac ,

that was the most disappointing part of the whole thing

MoonMelon ,

Wait, it's all just Arthurian legend?
🌍👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀

JohnDClay ,

Star wars a new hope started out with Luke as an everyman. But since then it's all become about the bloodline. Rise of Skywalker is especially bad, tearing down the anyone can be special and saying you can only be special because of your bloodline.

Samvega ,

The issue with the Star Wars story is that it can't end. This means Luke cannot have been very effective, because the same issues have to repeat historically to promote an endless cycle of protagonists and antagonists and battles that relate to the previous fan-favourites (because nostalgia sells).

Therefore Luke must simultaneously be an awesome hero, and also just some loser that didn't really do anything that worked.

magic_lobster_party ,

A new hope started with blood line. It was established out of the gate that Luke’s father was a Jedi knight and a good friend of Obi Wan.

Force Awakens and Last Jedi seemed to go in the direction that Rey and Snoke are unrelated to previous blood lines, but nope, it’s all Palpatine.

Prunebutt ,

They tried to fix it in the last Jedi, but the fans had too much of a tantrum.

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