Meta to broaden hate speech policy to remove more posts targeting 'Zionists' ( www.middleeasteye.net )

Meta has said it will expand its hate speech policy to cover more uses of the word "Zionist" when applied to Jews or Israelis on its platform.

We will now remove messages targeting 'Zionists' in several areas where our investigation has shown that the term tends to be used to refer to Jews and Israelis, with dehumanising comparisons, calls to harm, or denials of existence," the company said in a press release on Tuesday.

In December, Human Rights Watch said that Meta was guilty of “systemic censorship of Palestine content” during Israel's war on Gaza.

rottingleaf ,

If only all these companies were so eager to censor Azeri posts calling Armenia "Western Azerbaijan", doing genocide denial or right away calls to murder.

But "dehumanizing" group murdering people in droves right now is bad, because it may or may not intersect with an ethno-cultural group.

It won't be too long till Hezbollah are my heroes. I may even become more tolerant to Marxism at some point ; one Marxist sci-fi book, which seemed either naive or hidden critique of USSR itself, now seems to be a pretty good description of our world.

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar
ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Meanwhile, scamming on instagram is totally OK, because they pay for ad space!

EnderMB ,

Lol have you ever tried to report abuse on Facebook or Instagram?

They won't do shit about obvious racist abuse or hate speech. Let them define what they want, they will do what they always do - nothing.

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Their algorithm appears to work on bots only which auto crawl content for words.

When it comes to media they do remove some material there are a few articles of people working in a meta moderation centers with traumas from what they have seen posted.

werefreeatlast ,

As a person who doesn't know and has to Google what a Zioni....

StaySquared ,

So... hate speech toward a political ideology? Are they going to do the same for the other political ideologies?

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

It is specifically not that. It's about people misusing the term "Zionists" to refer to Jews, which is also a thing that happens.

The complete statement is here if you want to see it. The posted article does a pretty poor job explaining it.

StaySquared ,

Okay... so people call white cis males, "fascists"

So we need to make it fair then and make all speech against political ideologies as, "hate speech".

Any one person supporting the elimination of our right to free speech should be turned into its basic form of carbon without hesitation.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry, but I believe that terror groups (such as the KKK, Proud Boys, GDL, ISIS/Daesh, NJP, Patriot Front) should not be allowed unlimited free reign to spread their message and recruit followers but that's just me. I understand the argument for unlimited free speech on every platform, but I happen to disagree.

Krono ,

But what about the terror group known as IDF? They have unlimited free reign to spread their genocidal message and recruit followers. They also buy ads, and have a budget larger than all the terror groups you mentioned combined.

StaySquared ,

That's a slippery slope. That would then include political ideologies like Marxism, Zionism, Communism, Socialism, and other social-political groups you forgot to include like BLM and Anti-Fa.

chrash0 ,

most Zionists i’ve met are white Protestants, and most Jews i’ve met aren’t Zionists…

rottingleaf ,

Most Zionist Jews I've met have become interested in their identity only because of Israel. Thoroughly assimilated before that. Not even one or two family Yiddish phrases for fitting situations (like az okh n vey or something).

Usually carriers of their home's typical understanding of nationalism, only adapted for Israel. Cause at home it's kinda frowned upon usually, while for Israel it's something different, "allowed", and they get to feel themselves better, of some different blood.

jprice ,

If you’ve ever had Passover with a Zionist and they bring up politics, you then realize how terrible people they are. Psychos some of them.

Lionheadbud ,

Passover is a weird thing. The "angel of death" slaughtered Egyptian children over night and for some reason needed marks to be placed over the doors of Jewish houses.

I have my doubts about whether it was really a supernatural event

nyar ,

Good news: it didn't happen at all!

kandoh ,

You know, now that we're talking about it — I've always had my doubts that Noah collected two of every animal.

Mrkawfee ,

Given how eagerly the Israelis have been murdering children I seriously doubt they needed the angel of death to do the dirty work.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Well considering it never happened, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

demonsword ,
@demonsword@lemmy.world avatar

I have my doubts about whether it was really a supernatural event

don't worry, it's just a fairy tale

Mrkawfee ,

Zionists: It's anti Semitic to say Zionists control social media.

Also Zionists: from now on you're not allowed to criticize us on social media.

bazus1 ,

Headline next week:
Meta has said it will expand its hate speech policy to cover more uses of the word “Nazi” when applied to white males on its platform.

Manos ,

Probably fitting. Babbling leftists have thrown that word around so much its lost all meaning as well.

RageAgainstTheRich ,

Don't want to be called a nazi? Then don't act and speak like one. Easy.

11111one11111 ,

Sounds like a fuckin totalitarian ultimatum to me you fuckin nazi /s

MajinBlayze ,

Let's not pretend that there isn't an active effort to undermine the meaning of Nazi. I've seen many more claims of Nazi being overused than I have of anyone actually accusing someone of being a Nazi, in good faith or otherwise

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

And it’s always by people you’d generally call a Nazi.

Normal people aren’t bothered by it.

Kaboom ,

Yeah, a lot of anti-zionism was clearly just thinly vieled anti-semitism. This makes sense.

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks for conflating the two, person who defends israel in every post.

Mrkawfee ,

Most Zionists in the US are Christians.

Kaboom ,

Most people in the US are Christians

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Conflating Jews and Zionists is obligatory for Mark "Donated $125.000 to Zaka" Zuckerberg.

Also denial of the existence of israel is now forbidden in Germany and on Meta platforms. Free speech btw.

daddyjones ,
@daddyjones@lemmy.world avatar

shown that the term tends to be used to refer to Jews and Israelis, with dehumanising comparisons, calls to harm, or denials of existence,"

This is not confusing the two - this is specifically targeting anti-semitism

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

No this is banning criticism of israel along with it. Using Judaism as a shield for Zionists.

If they wanted to ban antisemitism they would not have included non-antisemitism in there.

admin ,
@admin@lemmy.my-box.dev avatar

I'm not fully up to date on the details of these, but I was under the understanding that the whole zionism thing was just a racist conspiracy theory regarding a secret society of Jews controlling whatever.

In that case, isn't the term inherently antisemitic, or are there also non-Jewish zionist theories?

Canary9341 ,

Where did you read something like that? Originally it was about the creation of a jewish state, nowadays it's just for israeli nationalism.

admin ,
@admin@lemmy.my-box.dev avatar

As you can tell - basically deduced from context. I've never really seen the term zionist outside of xenofobic rants, so that's all I had to go on.

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

No Zionism is the religion of israel. It does not have anything to do with Judaism. It's a white surpremacy death cult akin to Nazism.

The best way to describe Zionists is a quote by Ilan Pape:

"Most Zionists don't believe that God exists, but they do believe that he promised them Palestine"

alyqz , (edited )

Zionism is a nationalist movement for the support of a Jewish state. Throughout history different people have had different justifications for the need for a Jewish state, some of them antisemitic. It is worth noting that not all Jews are Zionists and non Jews can be considered Zionists since the desire for a Jewish ethno-state does not require one be a Jew.

As the stated goal is the creation of an ethno-state and thus the exclusion of other groups, racism tends to be implicit for many. Since the creation of an ethno-state likely requires the removal of of the current inhabitants, some pretty despicable actions get justified.

It is important to note that many of the most outspoken anti-Zionists have always been Jews. It's from these that I have often heard the argument that conflating all Jews with Zionism/the state of Israel puts Jews everywhere at risk of getting blamed/punished for the actions of the state of Israel.

Many extremist Christians support the Zionist movement out of either the desire to remove Jews from their country or because they want all of them to return to Israel so that the rapture/end of the word can be realized. Some extremist Christian groups are literally doomsday cults kinda explaining their lack of care for the future...I mean why worry when the end times are nigh.

The US, and much of the west, show unyielding support for the state of Israel and by extension Zionism for several reasons, chiefly geopolitical in nature (oil). Other reasons include racism towards the other peoples of the region, the antisemitism described above, shame over the Holocaust (the Allies all showed some compliancy with it at least in the beginning...antisemitism has deep roots in western culture), and the fact that confronting the wrong of the colonial project of Israel means confronting their own colonial pasts...and often presents.

Edit to add:
Belief that all Jews deserve to be safe and not have to fear hatred in no way requires the establishment of a pure ethno-state, the displacement/killing of whole peoples, or the support of those who push for these. The book "On Palestine" by Chomsky and Ilan Pappe argues for a one state solution with freedom for Jews, Christians, Muslims, and other groups all having the right to self determination. As well as pointing out evidence that much of the two state discourse is explicitly vavout preventing peace in the region. Both Chomsky and Ilan are Jews.

the_crotch ,
daddyjones ,
@daddyjones@lemmy.world avatar

You think that dehumanising, calling for harm or denials of Jewish existence aren't anti-semitism?

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Why are you bringing up Judaism?

The article separately mentions Zionism. This has nothing to do with Judaism.

daddyjones ,
@daddyjones@lemmy.world avatar

You mentioned Judaism. You think Zionism had nothing to do with Judaism? You think dehumanising anyone - including Zionists is ok?

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

That is exactly it. Antisemites figured out a while back that they could say whatever they want about Jews as long as they swap out the word Zionist. This has been a feature of white supremacy for ages. It used to be "people with big noses" or "people who wear hats" or even "bankers," or "globalists." The latter two are more similar to the use of "Zionist" because they represent actual groups that people criticize. That gives more cover to the actual antisemites.

This is actually a good thing, because it removes that cover from bigots who want to hijack the movement and hide behind it.

tjsauce ,

Isn't it incredibly dangerous to ban "Zionist" only because it's misused? It can be used to legitimately describe people who have a vested interest in Isreal occupying Palestine. I understand it's used as a slur, but banning otherwise normal words will make the discourse much more difficult.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Who said anything about banning it? You can read the full statement here. As I said, this is about bigots co-opting the word to say bigoted shit, taking into account the nuance of how a word can be used or misused. Literally no one other than propagandists are talking about Meta "banning" the word.

We do not allow content that attacks people on the basis of protected characteristics such as nationality, race, or religion, among others. We do allow people to criticize adherents of political affiliations and ideologies.

tjsauce ,

My apologies, I did not read the article on the assumption Meta would choose the irresponsible option. The article was surprisingly nuanced, and I hope the enforcement of Meta's policies are equally nuanced.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, let's hope so!

MajinBlayze ,

Denial of Israel as in saying it doesn't exist, or that it shouldn't?

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar
MajinBlayze ,

Pretending the state of Israel isn't a form of regional power doesn't make it go away.

Don't get me wrong, Israel has shown time and again that it does not deserve that power and must be dismantled. But that doesn't sound like what the law is talking about.

Maybe I'm being overly pedantic about the language in use

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

To be clear I'm talking about the government form of one single state and calling it Palestine, Not booting out everyone living there.

Israel could be recognized as a country. In fact Palestinians have presented a two state solution for mutual recognition. If israel accepts it, it will become a country. Even Hamas has said to be open to this

Palestinians have the right to recognize israel as a country as they have stolen their land. We do not have that right. Lucky for israel if they aren't super Nazis looking to expand their Lebensraum, they can agree to that two state solution right now.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

Also denial of the existence of israel is now forbidden in Germany and on Meta platforms. Free speech btw.

Maybe it's just me, but calling for the eradication of a country is bad (controversial take, I know)

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes everyone should recognize Palestine.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

I agree, but not a Palestine that occupies 100% of Israel.

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is not a country.

If israel wants to exist it can accept a two state solution with Palestine right now.

You do not get to decide whether a colony is a country. The natives do.

Saying israel is a country is similar to saying Crimea is actually Russian.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

Israel is not a country.

OK I'm done with this conversation, lmao. Didn't have to scratch your surface very much for the full-on hate to come out. Interesting how that happens so often with people who profess to simply be anti-zionist.

Linkerbaan OP , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Recognition of israel comes from Palestinians not from posturing hypocrites.

cygnus , (edited )
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

Thanks for the explanation, person who believes Jews are not native to Israel:

You do not get to decide whether a colony is a country. The natives do.

Definitely not a ragingly anti-Semitic opinion there, nope! Edit: same for the downvoters too. You all need to take a step back and re-examine your views. Jews have lived there for 3000 years.

filister ,

Could you remind me how this turned out in most of America historically? And here by America I mean both North and South America.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

Can you rephrase this question? I have no idea what you're asking.

WanderingVentra ,

So have Muslims and Christians. Doesn't give them the right to kill all the other people and take their land. Not to mention everything they do to encourage settler colonialism, like giving settlers a free pass from Europe or the US to come in and take homes from natives in the area. You can find so many examples of random people from Germany or New York who show up and are given a house that belonged to some Palestinian family for generations.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

So have Muslims and Christians. Doesn’t give them the right to kill all the other people and take their land.

So your solution is to dissolve the state of Israel and leave the Jews there at the mercy of neighbours who would take their land and kill them on sight? Big brain time

The history of Israel's formation is not relevant to today's discussion. Most countries were founded on colonialism and war and oppression; it doesn't mean the solution is "well actually let's send everyone packing"

CybranM ,

Is the US a country? Is Australia a country? I doubt the natives decided they were.
Very weird way to define a country, regardless of your thoughts on Israel / Palestine

Flyswat , (edited )

Zionists are not following Judaism. If you ask some orthodox jewish people living in occupied Palestine they'll tell you they are in exile and are not allowed to have their country until the arrival of the Messiah, that they are simply living in that land that belongs to whoever it belonged to.

Zionists on the other hand are imperialist colonizers who took the land from its owners. So asking for the land to be returned to its rightful owners is legitimate, and this translates to the end of the existance of the state created on wrongfully seized land.

This should not be conflated with eradicating the people. The people could live there with the local Muslims, Christians and Jews as they did before. Although I know we don't live in a fairy tale. If the occupying state is dismantled, how can one live peacefully with the people who tortured you, your family and society for decades and made your life hell...

Edit: adding link to interview

0x0 ,

Zionists are not following Judaism. If you ask jewish people living in occupied Palestine they’ll tell you they are in exile and are not allowed to have their country until the arrival of the Messiah, that they are simply living in that land that belongs to whoever ot belonged to.

Zionists om the other hand are imperialist colonisers who took the land from its owners. So asking for the land to return to its rightful owners is legitimate, and this translates to the end of the existance of the state created on wrongfully seized land.

So, per your words, jewish people are zionists who use religion as an excuse to occupy a land that is not theirs (and keep expanding with more settlers every chance they get). Also, isn't israel supposed to be their god given country? Why would they leave?

0x0 ,

Zionists are not following Judaism. If you ask jewish people living in occupied Palestine they’ll tell you they are in exile and are not allowed to have their country until the arrival of the Messiah, that they are simply living in that land that belongs to whoever ot belonged to.

Zionists om the other hand are imperialist colonisers who took the land from its owners. So asking for the land to return to its rightful owners is legitimate, and this translates to the end of the existance of the state created on wrongfully seized land.

So, per your words, jewish people are zionists who use religion as an excuse to occupy a land that is not theirs (and keep expanding with more settlers every chance they get). Also, isn't israel supposed to be their god given country? Why would they leave?

Flyswat ,

No, what I said is that Zionism opposes Judaism. Zionists seemingly are not religious but twist what the religion says to enact their colonial goals.

Bernie_Sandals , (edited )
@Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world avatar
Flyswat ,

I'll edit the link to mention these are orthodox jews who were interviewed.

I didn't know how few are the Jews who actually heed their religion.

To be noted regarding Pew's poll is that the number of those who believe that the land was promised to the Jews does not say whether they believe they should be owning it now or it shall only become theirs once the Messiah comes.

WanderingVentra ,

If the occupying state is dismantled, how can one live peacefully with the people who tortured you, your family and society for decades and made your life hell...

South Africa pulled it off. But yes, it basically required dismantling the state completely from what it was. South Africa as it existed before and after apartheid are essentially different states with the same name. They got a new Constitution and everything. They still have a lot of problems with the white population having a majority of the land and money, but there's nowhere near the violence there was beforehand. Everyone mostly lives in peace together now. It can be done. The same thing happened with the IRA in the UK.

We would need to do the same thing. Dismantle Israel completely down to its roots, build something new in the same place from scratch, a place for both Palestinians and Israelis can live together. Some people would be pissed and there'd be some trouble in the beginning, but most people want to live in peace.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Calling for the eradication of a religious ethnostate that engages in genocide and colonialism is surprisingly a good thing.

Or do you think it was bad the world eradicated Nazi Germany?

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

That's an excellent historical analogy — too bad you've misunderstood it. Germany was not dissolved after WW2, and its population was not thrown to the wolves. We only replaced their government. I agree that Likud needs to go (ideally to the Hague) but the people here wanting to wipe the country from the map are dangerous lunatics.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

The countries of East and West Germany would like a word with you. The state of Nazi Germany very clearly ceased to exist.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

The division was because the winners couldn't coexist, not because Germany inherently needed to be split. The whole thing could have been treated like West Germany.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

No, the division was because the winners couldn't agree on who gets to build a new country where the old one was.

No one was going to leave the Nazi state in power.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

The division was because the winners couldn’t coexist,

No, the division was because the winners couldn’t agree on who gets to build a new country where the old one was.

Sounds to me like we're in agreement here? In any case, the Allies didn't give have Poland annex German territory or whatever. It continued to exist. Lots of people in this thread on the other hand want to delete Israel altogether and give it all to Palestine (which, incidentally, has never been a state at any point in history)

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Why would the Allies give German land to a Soviet puppet state of Poland?

You know what they did? They gave it back to the people living there, so let's give Israel back to the people who lived there, that is the majority the Palestinians.

The Israelis can be like White South Africans, stay or fuck off, it's not important.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

You know what they did? They gave it back to the people living there, so let’s give Israel back to the people who lived there, that is the majority the Palestinians.

The Israelis can be like White South Africans, stay or fuck off, it’s not important.

Holy fuck. I'm going to be charitable and assume you're just unaware of history, and not a full-blown Nazi. You know Palestinians and Mizrahi Jews are the same people, right?

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

The only full blown Nazi I'm potentially seeing around here is wanting the Nazi-wannabe state of Israel to not be destroyed.

And no, Palestinians are not all Jews.

The majority of Israelis are descended from Europeans or Americans, they are not the people living there before Israels colonisation.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

This is absolutely false, but I should perhaps be thanking you. I've been wondering in these Israel vs. Palestine discussions why so many people have such dogshit takes on the matter. It seems many are simply running their mouth despite a complete lack of understanding of the facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews

That aside, your willingness to deport millions of people is appalling. You are a hateful, miserable person and what you are advocating for here is a type of genocide.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

That doesn’t say they at all.

What it does show is at best maybe 44% can trace a parent or grandparent back to the region.

Destruction of a state apparatus is not genocide. I understand you’re invested in downplaying what genocide actually is so you’re acting dishonestly with that remark but still.

Miaou ,

What? No it did not. What are you even trying to say?

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